Rashid Ramzi and Kenenisa Bekele

Board. wrote:

celery wrote:

I hear testosterone, growth hormone, and EPO help with the build up.

Add cortisone and blood transfusions

Basically the same as Lance Armstrong was on

El Guerrouj would have been on the full cocktail anyway

Don’t let rekky read this, his head will explode

He will just remind us that El G was as clean as Paula.

casual obsever wrote:

He will just remind us that El G was as clean as Paula.

Ah some laughs to bring in the new year. Remember these people are are as clean as the waste pipes running under Chernobyl.

It’s a troll being sarcastic towards poster said88.

Whoever is impersonating him is trying to be ironic.

Deanouk wrote:

Retarded idiot alert wrote:

Yes, Ovett is more worthy of celebration than Ramzi becuse he, unlike Ramzi, was never caught for using PED´s.

This has to be the most stupid post on LRC in a long time, and that´s saying a lot.

It’s a troll being sarcastic towards poster said88.

Whoever is impersonating him is trying to be ironic.

I'm assuming base on his handle; "said88" is a huge fan of Said Aouita? (is he also a Morrocan runner by chance?). So, it begs the question: Does "said88" believe that Aouita was doping?

Coevett wrote:

Morrocan Magic wrote:

Fun tidbit with Morrocan 1500 meter runners: Did you know that 3 of their top 6 all-time fastest runners were caught doping? (Ramzi, Amine Laâlou & Adil Kaouch). And wasn't it Kaouch that paced El G to his 15 WR?

And a number of people here still maintain that Aouita and El G are likely innocent. Even if there was no additional circumstantial evidence (for example : Aouita's weird progression, 'Doctor Syringe', and chased out of Australia for telling his athletes to take peds) you'd have to be naive that Moroccan runners only started doping when there was reasonably effective testing available.

Mind you, the Kenyan top 6 all time list is scarcely better. Bernard Lagat and Kiprop at numbers 1 and 2, Ngeny at number 4 before his dodgy 'car accident'.

Maybe friends & family? ?

Typical Coevett post. He did the same with ex-runner.

Inquiring minds want to know wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

It’s a troll being sarcastic towards poster said88.

Whoever is impersonating him is trying to be ironic.

I'm assuming base on his handle; "said88" is a huge fan of Said Aouita? (is he also a Morrocan runner by chance?). So, it begs the question: Does "said88" believe that Aouita was doping?

I think there was actually a thread once asking said88 whether he still idolized Aouita in the light of the Australian scandal and he was pretty 'meh..who cares?' in the answer he gave. More recently (a few days ago) he was even more forthright, stating explicitly that it would not bother him if Aouita took drugs unless his improvement was entirely down to peds. He also claimed that his issue with me was not that I suspected Aouita of being a cheat, but because I have repeatedly claimed that Aouita was a '1:50/3:40' man, whereas actually Aouita consistently ran a 3:37 once a season for three years consecutively from age 21 to 24, amongst the more typical 3:40 to 3:45 times. In other words, Said88 claims that his dispute with me is about historical accuracy concerning times and progressions, not about whether Aouita was cheating, which he (said88) doesn't particularly care about.

I'm pretty sure that if you took the average of Aouita's best 3 or 4 races each season, his 1500m average would read something like :

1980 - 3:42

1981 - 3:42

1982 - 3:43

1983 - 3:33 (moved to Italy in winter, enlists network of doctors, trains in USA where new HGH is out)

1984 - 3:32

1985 - 3:30

But for Said88 that is not a problem, and his only issue is that I used imprecise language in claiming that Aouita turned almost overnight from a 3:40 runner into a 3:30 runner.

And yes, deano is right - I did make that said888 satirical post. The opportunity was too good to miss after this thread was bumped and I noticed some poster (maybe it was even said88) had used the same kind of apologism for Ramzi before he finally got busted.

Coevett wrote:

Mind you, the Kenyan top 6 all time list is scarcely better. Bernard Lagat and Kiprop at numbers 1 and 2, Ngeny at number 4 before his dodgy 'car accident'.

So one doper.

Direct quote from 'Moroccan Success : The Kada Way (Greg Rowlerson)' :

"Aouita had been hovering around the 1:50 and 3:40 standard during most of his races but after a tremendous training period in the winter of 1982/3 he returned to racing, a different athlete. Firstly there was a 2:16.9 over 1,000m meters, which sliced more than two seconds from his national record. Two races later came a sensational 3:32.54 at 1,500 meters. This four second plus improvement brought him up to an international standard. Then, twenty two days later he recorded an amazing 1:44.38 for 800m. This time the improvement was more than two seconds. Suddenly the Moroccan was truly world class.

Rowlerson, btw, who thinks there is no reason to suspect El G and many other Moroccans, indicates that he feels Aouita was likely doping (in the light of the Australian scandal).

Coevett wrote:

Direct quote from 'Moroccan Success : The Kada Way (Greg Rowlerson)' :

"Aouita had been hovering around the 1:50 and 3:40 standard during most of his races but after a tremendous training period in the winter of 1982/3 he returned to racing, a different athlete. Firstly there was a 2:16.9 over 1,000m meters, which sliced more than two seconds from his national record. Two races later came a sensational 3:32.54 at 1,500 meters. This four second plus improvement brought him up to an international standard. Then, twenty two days later he recorded an amazing 1:44.38 for 800m. This time the improvement was more than two seconds. Suddenly the Moroccan was truly world class.

Rowlerson, btw, who thinks there is no reason to suspect El G and many other Moroccans, indicates that he feels Aouita was likely doping (in the light of the Australian scandal).

https://www.amazon.com/Moroccan-Success-Kada-Greg-Rowlerson/dp/1847479812

Maybe said88 could contact this author to berate him? Did you have an address for Rowlerson, perchance?

I would not have given a reply to this newly constructed nonsens by Coedeppe (btw, if you try to hide that some nonsense is actually written by yourself, Coedeppe, then at least you should try to avoid some same stupidities under both "Coevette" and your many other handles like the wrong spelling "morcelli" for Noureddine Morceli).

But here Coedeppe is going much too far. I've never even tried to argue if Aouita might have used illegal methods for his success or not. If he has than that's bad and everyone has every right to point on it (what on earth have I to do with it?). The only thing I have tried to do is to make the facts correct. (btw, this is the only chance to make a stringent argument for whatever: if the basis of the argument are correct facts). But Coedeppe can't even grasp this.

The willingly listing of completely wrong times for Aouita is just one of the many lies which he does since around two years on this forum. But he will not (maybe he is really intellectually not capable to do so, as this post suggests?) change this attitude.

21 to 24? He can't even count to three. Correct would be 19 to 21 or 20 to 22. We just don't know.

Coedeppe is pretty sure that his averages...

That's how he does his "researches": just stating what he thinks.

Correct for 1983 is not "3:33" but 3:34.3 (best 3) or 3:35.4 (best 4). He could (OK, I'm really not sure anymore) have done this easily by himself, but why when other numbers better fix to the points to be "proved". For 1980 his numbers seem to be close to the truth, in 1981 Aouita has won a championship race in 3:38.43 (World University Games) (so his average was around 3:39) which we all know are usually run with 3 or 4 pacemakers in Scandinavia.

The point Coedeppe wants to prove at all with his (wrong as usual) averages is not clear at all. Aouita just was a 3:45 man (as he has stated not long ago - until his mid twenties, when he was the world record holder!!) but could dope for 1 meet to 3:37? I don't get it. Most of his races were at Championships like Islamic, World Youth, Arabic or dual meetings. Very few oportunities to race at European meetings were the chance to achieve better times might be better. (btw: how many times has Coe run 1:41? 3:29? 14:06? Ovett 1:44? 3:30? 8:13?). All this data for me clearly indicated that Aouita in the years 1980 to 1982 actually could have run already faster than 3:37 for 1500. (But it seems I'm not allowed to state this not very far stretched estimate, because ... because WHAT???).

Again: I'm not here to defend Aouita in any way. If he is a cheater then that's bad and disappointing for me. But it would not make myself beeing a cheater. But I think for this stranger it's too much that my username here is connected with Aouita (I choose this name almost two decades ago in the then prominent IAAF forum, mainly because as a young sports enthusiast I was so deeply impressed by Aouita's decision to race the 800m in Seoul - as current 5000m WR holder, World and Olympic champion. (btw: I later had to learn that for some this directly makes me very suspicious to be some "Nazi"). But thanks to Coedeppe I have learned now that the 800m in Seoul was a very weak holiday like competition (Lord Coe wasn't there) - despite the fact that it has had something like 20 sub 1:45 athletes compared with around 3 (I have checked it last year for Coedeppe, but can't remember exactly) in Moscow 1980 (for sure a much stronger competition, as I have also learned).

Stop it Coevett, just stop it to put words in my mouth which I have never done. Can you just grasp this? It's called to defame someone what you are doing - stop it. What's wrong with you?

Sucio wrote:

Maybe said88 could contact this author to berate him? Did you have an address for Rowlerson, perchance?

I don't want to contact Greg Rowlerson.

I was in contact with him at the time he wrote his book and actually helped him with career records for some athletes to do his stats.

Coevett wrote:

Direct quote from 'Moroccan Success : The Kada Way (Greg Rowlerson)' :

"Aouita had been hovering around the 1:50 and 3:40 standard during most of his races but after a tremendous training period in the winter of 1982/3 he returned to racing, a different athlete. Firstly there was a 2:16.9 over 1,000m meters, which sliced more than two seconds from his national record. Two races later came a sensational 3:32.54 at 1,500 meters. This four second plus improvement brought him up to an international standard. Then, twenty two days later he recorded an amazing 1:44.38 for 800m. This time the improvement was more than two seconds. Suddenly the Moroccan was truly world class.

Rowlerson, btw, who thinks there is no reason to suspect El G and many other Moroccans, indicates that he feels Aouita was likely doping (in the light of the Australian scandal).

https://www.amazon.com/Moroccan-Success-Kada-Greg-Rowlerson/dp/1847479812

So that "author" does the same you do, states false times, and you want us to believe anything else he says?

No.

Oh get over yourself. I've had death threats here and other things, including trolls posting really offensive crap under variations of my name. Anybody who even recognizes 'said88' as a regular poster would obviously see it was a satirical post (as Deano did). As to the other poster who not only recognized it was satirical but correctly guessed it was me, and claimed I also impersonate 'Ex-Runner' - 'Ex-Runner' has been doing that to both myself and SubwaySurfers multiple times.

I apologize if I made you (said88) look like somebody who defends obvious Moroccan doping cheats . Oh...wait a moment...

No, you're missing the point entirely. Somebody who accepted it was right to raise suspicion and judgement on Aouita would not be nitpicking and splitting hairs (and with personal abuse) over whether I was technically correct in saying that Aouita was a 1:50/3:40 runner. For most people, that would be an adequate description for Aouita's performances in 1980-82, when he did usually run around those times.

You're just about the only person who thinks I'm 'lying' about Aouita's times. No more than the guy above who posted (before Ramzi was busted) that Ramzi improved by '10-15 seconds in one year when in fact he had improved by 'only' 9.05 seconds. Although I doubt if understanding satire is your strong point, obsessed as you are with numbers and stats.

Hey c'mon. Even somebody profoundly autistic would likely see some comical irony in that statement.

What are you talking about here? I would bett that my guess at a rough average was pretty close to the mark. If Aouita ran 3:37 and 3:38.4 in his two best races, which you yourself say were his 'rare' opportunities to run fast, then it's quite likely his average for his best 4 would be over 3:40.

Aouita was running regularly on the European B circuit in 81 and 82, yet his times regressed from 1980. You're a lier and you're lying to defend an obvious doping cheat, probably the cheat who did more than any other to make it 'respectable' and an inspiration for all the EPO cheats that came after him.

Just lol. You started attacking me when I started criticizing Aouita here. As I've pointed out many times, if there was one piece of circumstantial evidence to suggest Coe, Ovett, or Cram doped, then I would NEVER defend any of them ever again. I certainly wouldn't resort to personal abuse to a poster who pointed out that evidence. Aouita was ran from Australia after several athletes made allegations he was pressurizing them to use drugs. While it's not definite proof alone that Aouita himself cheated, if it were a British athlete who had been in that situation, then I doubt if he would have a single defender here. But not only the Australian affair, Aouita had a Belgian(!) doctor (amongst his others) who was known as 'Doctor Syringe' and who was busted for supplying countless runners and cyclists with peds including EPO. Add to that his very weird progression (and it's very weird however much you want to split hairs), the fact that so many of the Moroccan athletes who followed him were busted for ped use, and his openly declared financial motivations, and you have overwhelming evidence that Aouita likely used PEDs.

With Coe, you have his 'blood infection', and out of him, Cram, and Ovett, that's about it (other than that they ran fast). I'll admit, Coe's blood disorder on the surface looks a bit dodgy given we know blood doping was taking place in the 70s and 80s, but I've read Deano's rebuttal of that as an argument that he was doing it, and I'm honestly persuaded by that, as well as other arguments that leave me finding it difficult to believe Coe was a doper. such as the fact that he himself led the way in having blood doping banned (and it was in I think 85, and Coe ran some of his best times AFTER when he was starting his decline).

Coe ran 1:41,1:42, 1:43 when he had to or wanted to (break a WR), which was about once or twice a season when he was at h is peak between 79 and 81. Contrary to your lies (and they are lies because you more than anyone know Aouita's race history in his early years), Aouita was racing regularly on the European circuit, and often losing. Aouita ducked about everybody over 1500 in 83 and 84, and the Helsinki race was not at a WR pace. So maybe (or even likely) he would have ran 3:29/3:30 in 83 or 84, which would have made his sudden progression even more obviously incredible.

Oh, and you're lying about there being 20 sub 1:45 runners in Seoul, and you're lying about there being only three sub 1:45 runners in Moscow.

In the Moscow final alone :

Seb Coe - 1:41

Steve Ovett - 1;44

Agberto Conceição Guimarãe 1:43

Andreas Busse 1:44

Detlef Wagenknecht 1:44

José Marajo 1:43

Kirov's pb was 1:45.11, but he was clearly in sub 1:45 form in Moscow (and likely juiced to the gills, something that would obviously not concern you).

Two 1:43 guys weren't fast enough to make the Moscow final (Beyer and Wuycke).

So stop your lies Saidepede.

And why do you continue to denigrate Ovett and his performance in his Moscow? When Dave Wottle won Gold in Munich just eight years earlier the WR was still 1:44. The Ukrainian guy he pipped was the pre-race favorite and ended his career never having broken 1:45. Does that mean Dave Wottle was a bum or would have been out of place in Moscow eight years later? O.K., so HGH had appeared in the mid-eighties and 1:43 was the new 1:45 by Seoul. Big deal. Aouita would surely have ran faster than 3:37 in 82, but Ovett could never have ran faster than 1:44, despite running still the fastest 2nd lap in Olympic 800m history?

Man, how much time have I wasted typing this in response to a morally decrepit character who defends an even bigger morally decrepit character?

The reason that it is important to point out your lies is that you CONSTANTLY lie. It is not missing the point or splitting hairs to highlight those.

Coevett wrote:

Oh get over yourself. I've had death threats

Never happened.

You have been playing the victim for about a year.

No one threatened to kill you. You were the one threatening to make someone eat their own intestines after you ripped them out.

Coevett wrote:

You're just about the only person who thinks I'm 'lying' about Aouita's times.

You talk about "your stalker"... You don't have a stalker. You have many people who are tired of your lies.

Plenty of people here, with more than a decade on LRC (you what? 2 years?) have posted on many threads uncovering your lies.

You have zero credibility.