VA INTERMONT FIRES COACH, ELIMINATES TRACK XC

sp!kes wrote:

Flagpole Willy wrote:

1) I'm not rich. I just don't spend unnecessarily so that one day I will be rich.

2) I already give a decent amount of my money to charitable causes (including my church) each year. Lots of deserving charities out there to give to that I can't afford to give to who would be way ahead of this cause.

3) I just got an e-mail from a lottery in Africa that I've apparently won, so once I receive that money (after I give them my checking account routing number), I will have more money, so perhaps I will donate then. :)

just what I thought, "brother."

Well, you thought correctly then my brother.

The effort made by Simmons was indeed valiant and selfless but he went about ii in a totally unfashionable manner. When you raise money for your program, you don't create websites asking for donations from online users. You raise money by: 1) hosting track/XC meets at your school; 2) organizing fundraisers such as Relay for Life to get money for the program; or 3) use the allotted budget given for each team to save money for a trip to Nationals. I find it very hard to believe that the VIC athletic department neglected to provide a solid budget for their athletic teams. If this was the case, why isn't this type of discipline happening to the other sports, such as footballl or baseball? Surely we are talking about a mishandling of money, but a total of $0 for track and XC? Bottom line: There are ways to raising money - creating a website against the juristiction of the department (and discriminating against the slower althetes in the program, nonethless, just to send some of the team to Nationals) is completely wrong.

That being said, it always sucks when somebody is fired from their job, so my sympathies to Simmons. This is a big hit to collegiate running, I hope VIC can rebound.

ARGHH BLOCK OF TEXT

As I said before, but some seem to not understand. VIC had an athletic budget, the XC/Track team had a very large one actually. Funding was cut to all athletic teams following the conference meet, meaning any national tournament or any competition past that, for that matter, would not be funded. The budget was there, but was snatched away without any warning, it was a shock to everyone.

love it! This loser is bagging on people for trying to help the VIC team. I've always taken pride in the running community... until now. Cheap, excuse making, losers.

Hey, when I was running seriously I was as broke as it gets... just like many on these boards. But those of us who have jobs and whatnot now should look back and help the situation for the runners who need it.

cheap m-fers. especially you, FW. you are no brother of mine, $hithead.

so all the runners that could not get into a real school are upset. vi is a juco. they have no rules, simmons gets talent that no other school can get in. i feel bad that a track program is being cut but i do not see this being a great loss.

The silver lining here is Simmons will land at a much better college in which to coach, be it NAIA, D3, D2, or D-I. He has a good resume, might as well use it to get to a real college.

The good thing for the athletes is they can transfer to a school that actually has some money for not just athletics, but science labs, better instructors, student organizations, and quality residence halls.

Who wants to attend a university that is on its last legs? And who wants to be associated with an athletic department that the administration isn't supporting?

I'd never heard of VI until I read about their distance program. It's sad for the athletes, coaches, and the student body.

In the long run, each student, athlete, coach, and some faculty will upgrade by attending or working at a better university.

I'd jump off that ship fast.

badger wrote:

But those of us who have jobs and whatnot now should look back and help the situation for the runners who need it.

cheap m-fers. especially you, FW. you are no brother of mine, $hithead.

NEED it? Yeah, these guys really NEED to go run at Nationals. You are such a good person for helping them fulfill this NEED. Thank you for crusading to help the NEEDY.

Reality check for you: Eating is a NEED. Running at NAIA nationals is NOT. And from the looks of things, not being able to travel to this meet is apparently the least of these STUDENT's worries.

It's not like the school just cut funds to spite them - THE SCHOOL IS OUT OF MONEY. And for everyone saying "I paid to run here" -- that's your fault. If the only reason you went to a COLLEGE was to run, and not to RECEIVE AN EDUCATION, that's your own fault!

To each his own, but don't blast Flagpole and others for having different priorities than you do. You look and sound like a fool.

none of us are returning to VIC because of what they did. We do not want to represent VI but run at Nationals just to support coach simmons for everything he was and is doing for us.

In this situation at VIC, I have an opinion, like everyone else and like everyone has a right to. Although I believe my opinion is valid, it is neither right nor wrong, but only expresses my own opinions on what I know and what I "THINK" I know.

In regards to the VIC runners not getting to go to nationals. I feel for you. I can understand all of the hard work that goes into that process and the expectations you might have had.

HOWEVER, we all live in the real world, and the real world is not always fair. Is it fair that your program got cut? NO. Is it fair that your coach got fired? NO. Sadly, your story is not unique or even one of the worst I have heard of with this type of scenario. I hope that you do get some support for in your efforts to get to Fresno and have personally given some to help you in those efforts. Not because I think it is your right, but because I want to help.

One of the problems that I have with much of what I have been reading as it comes from the VIC crowd, is that going to nationals was their "RIGHT". As if it was constitutional and that something that was rightfully theirs was taken away. Nationals, extracurricular activities are a privilege. Your school gave you something (scholarship, opportunity, etc...) you gave back by working hard, but you would never have qualified in the first place without VIC, they provided the money for you to enter the meets where you posted the times, they provided the transportation, the insurance and medical help, facilities, coach, etc.... It is too bad that they are not able to continue to help you. But you seem to be taking it all personally, when from a business standpoint, it looks professional. The problem exists from the standpoint that many people have a hard time separating personal feelings from professional. I cannot believe that VIC "WANTED" to cut the program and that they "WANTED" to deny people the privilege of representing them at a national meet. But they were forced into it.

People make tough decisions all the time that make people mad, don't seem fair, etc... Even mature adults get upset, promote rallys, etc... but none of these peripherals are based on the facts, but on feelings.

In addition, you have a coach that appears to have been trying very hard to help you all in many ways, and that is commendable. But for him to not have seen this coming is either a lie, he was oblivious to what was happening or he is just plain stupid, and I don't think he is stupid. I have been a part of a similar scenario at another school and these things don't sneak up on you.

I think your coach is a very good coach, but I would question his ethical standards. His repuation follows him in this regards. Great coach - but doesn't always see the difference between right and wrong and the process that goes with it. Just the final outcome (winning). I think that got him in trouble here. He was not paying attention to the processes, the meaning behind "financial trouble", etc... then it bit him in the butt.

Additionally, I question the ethics, standards and practices of any coach that would lobby for himself to be coach of the year, would recruit athletes that are somehow ineligible at other NAIA schools, but magically appear eligible at his own, and cannot see the big picture when viewing what is best for the SPORTS of xc and track (meaning when voting or submitting proposals only does so if they benefit his own program).

Again, great coach. But being a great coach does not mean you are a good person. There are a lot of people out there both alive and dead that have accomplished some amazing things (both good and bad), but that doesn't make them good people.

Again, my opinion. An opinion I Believe will be very unpopular with the VIC crowd, but unpopular does not mean wrong.

Everyone has a "right" to an opinion.

Good luck in getting to Fresno.

Another Opinion..... wrote:Very long post + Good luck in getting to Fresno.

Great post, and I echo the sentiments about good luck in getting to Fresno. I really do hope that they find a way to compete there, I'm just not going to be funding it.

wewanttosee wrote:

Great post, and I echo the sentiments about good luck in getting to Fresno. I really do hope that they find a way to compete there, I'm just not going to be funding it.

way to stick you your guns. fool.

You don't want to fund VIC fine, move on. But, do not bash Simmons. You looked at something that was posted on a message board and take it as fact. He is an ethical guy and has never asked to be voted for anything. He takes American transfers like Daniel Kanyaruhuru from 14:40 5k runners to 14 flat/29:16 10k runners. Or someone like Cabada from a 14 twenty runner to a 13:30/28:20/2:12 marathon American record holder for 25k. He took in runners no one wanted, runners others gave up on, runners who couldn't cut it at another school. He made them believe in each other and in themselves. He changed lives at VIC. He took the tired and poor, and made them champs. Knock the school, say you don't like the runners, but do not rip on Simmons who got fired for helping out his team.

Your the same people who ask what's wrong with American distance running. Well the answer is we don't support each other. On Letsrun everyone accused of being on drugs, or being shitty person. Jealousy will kill you brother.

VIC's athletes were recruited and paid a decent tuition to attend VI and run there. So the fair expectation would be, presuming they stayed within budget, that they would be sent to run NAIA nationals if they qualified for it.

I agree that Coach Simmons is a great coach and knows how to encourage his runners to be successful and that he wants nothing but the best for them. There aren't many coaches like that anymore. At the same time VIC did cheat in taking at least one runner this winter that became an all-american in the 5000m indoors and had no eligibility left. Magically this runner is shown to be eligible as a Jr when he's been in college for 5.5 years.

On the other hand, VIC does have athletes that do deserve to compete at the national championship.

Best of luck to those that do deserve to be at the NAIA Championships

no, he has athletes that no other school can deal with. do not make simmons out to be this great humanatarian. cabada had no other options. he started at arkansas, went to fresno st, then to vic. so no other school could get him in. simmons could not handle a div one gig

lots of people support other runners, american distance running, and the specifically the athletes at vi. BUT, i only did so for the athletes. While I can admit it sounds like simmons has actually done something decent here, or tried to do the right thing, I have seen the man do the morally wrong thing far to many times in the past. Think of him what you will, and maybe he's been a good coach to you, but simmons has pushed a lot of people into the mud and stepped on a lot of toes to get to where he is. he shouldn't expect much sympathy from those he's stabbed in the back when fate serves him some sour milk.

You forgot he also made a quick stop at Minot State.

There are hordes of people that Simmons pushed into the mud at Univ of Mobile? Minot State? VIC? My god - I didn't realize this!