SEBASTIAN COE; The best of All Time

Seb Coe maybe greatest 800m/1500m but Said Aouita beat for the greatest/most versatile distance runner by a country mile.

WYZ

Coe wrote:

Yes, Paige was a great one. Certainly seemed like a good guy (although that TV incident didn't sound too good).

It's just as bad that Villanova's Athletic Department allowed the cover-up. The average student at Nova would have gotten the boot. Come forward Tantino, tell us what you've heard about "the Paige incident".

Trackhead puts the best case forward for Geb as the best distance runner of all time - and it's far superior to any Aouita claim as the best ever.

Even taking out Aouita's best 800 (1:43.86, 248 best of all time) and Geb's Marathon (2:06:35, 12th best of all time) and matching their 1500, 3000, 5000, and 10,000 bests, Geb's career is clearly superior.

Take it in terms of ranking points and compile the scores like a cross-country meeting:

Geb:

1500 3:31.76 (=226 all time indoors or out)

3000 7:25.09 (4th all time)

5000 12:39.36 (1st - WR)

10,000 26:22.75 (1st - WR)

Total: 232

Aouita:

1500 3:29.46 (39th all time)

3000 7:29.45 (35th all time)

5000 12:58.39 (89th all time)

10,000 27:26.11 (151th all time)

Total: 314

Even balancing out the two medals won by Aouita at the Olympics (one in a weakened 5000 where he ducked Coe and Cram), Geb's two gold medals beat Aouita's gold and bronze.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Martin

Possibly the funniest thing I have ever read on this board is the fact that Seb Coe never managed anything "special" over the mile distance. So special is something other than breaking the world record with a 3:47.33 (still 9th all time, a mere 22 years later)?

Not to mention the fact that Coe is the only man in history to repeat as Olympic Champion in the 1500 (Metric MILE) run. Yes I realize you mentioned him as a great 1500m guy, but to me there isn't much difference between the two events, so how is it that he hasn't done anything special?

When I mentioned nothing "special" in anything over the mile distance that's what I meant . We consider the mile distance as 1609m here in the uk (just a little bit over 4 laps of the track) , yes slightly longer than the 1500m.

Coe's PR's at 3k and 5k and all the longer road races he took part in England are actually not that great when you put them into comparison to his 800m, 1000m, 1500m, and mile times. Perhaps national class times but absolutely no where near world class. I guess that he focused his training purely on the middle distances.

Martin wrote:

Trackhead puts the best case forward for Geb as the best distance runner of all time - and it's far superior to any Aouita claim as the best ever.

Even taking out Aouita's best 800 (1:43.86, 248 best of all time) and Geb's Marathon (2:06:35, 12th best of all time) and matching their 1500, 3000, 5000, and 10,000 bests, Geb's career is clearly superior.

Take it in terms of ranking points and compile the scores like a cross-country meeting:

Geb:

1500 3:31.76 (=226 all time indoors or out)

3000 7:25.09 (4th all time)

5000 12:39.36 (1st - WR)

10,000 26:22.75 (1st - WR)

Total: 232

Aouita:

1500 3:29.46 (39th all time)

3000 7:29.45 (35th all time)

5000 12:58.39 (89th all time)

10,000 27:26.11 (151th all time)

Total: 314

Even balancing out the two medals won by Aouita at the Olympics (one in a weakened 5000 where he ducked Coe and Cram), Geb's two gold medals beat Aouita's gold and bronze.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Martin

The numbers may speak for themselves, doesn't mean they make any sense.

As others have said, no one is going to win this argument, but basing greatness on current world rankings is clearly false reasoning. Where would Zatopek be on this basis? I really don't care to look up the figures, but if you wanted to use world rankings as a guide, wouldn't it be better to use rankings at the time of the performance?

I do agree that Geb is the greatest ever though...

You make a good point, in that comparing like-for-like is tricky when dealing with past generations.

But Aoutia and Geb are fairly close to being contemporaries ? with careers only a few years apart - making and apples-to-apples comparison a bit more valid, in my opinion.

But using different parameters to measure the career of these two athletes isn't going to change the outcome: Geb has set more world records, won more championship medals and has competed at the highest levels in a broader range of distances.

Martin

Geb vs Aouita is another tricky debate.

I think the main thing that impresses me about Aouita in comparison to Geb is that Aouita was a 5k Olympic gold medalist who was also world class at 800m. He ran 1-43 and got a bronze medal in the Olympic 800 final four years after he got a gold medal in the 5k !!!! I don't think that Geb could run that sort of 800m time but maybe I am wrong.

If we are to compare the times that they have ran then for me, with my knowledge, I would say that they are more or less even if you consider all the track distances they ran. I think that Aouita ran faster at 800m, 1500m, mile and perhaps 2000m ? (- correct me If I'm wrong here). Geb on the other hand has ran faster at 3k; 2miles; 5k and 10k. Four each ! Perhaps Geb's marathon could swing the balance but I would say that to be world class at 800m all the way up to 10k as Aouita was is incredibly difficult when you think about the physiology of these events.

One insurmountable problem in these "all-time greatest debates" is that prior to 1980 or so (or sometime in the '70s...pick your date), it wasn't economically feasible for most athletes to run beyond the age of 24 or so. So you have cases like Herb Elliot, whose brief career is pretty much peerless ... though admittedly brief.

Martin

Your thinking in the right direction for a comparison; however, do it correctly. You cannot judge both Aouita and Geb times from the same era-TO BE FAIR YOU MUST judge Aoutia times against the all-time list from his era and Geb against the all-time list from his era. That is only logical solution. When you do that you will come out with who was the most versatile runner .

Vipam

can't say i've heard about that Paige incident, but then again, that's the type of thing that may be swept away.

on a brighter note, we're looking forward to Drew Eckman's arrival on campus!

- tantino.

Hey Hoffman, you used to run for Yokum and then UTA, I was wondering what your doing now and how things were at UTA,I used to run for Bandera

Coe set 12 World records I believe, Geb set 17. However, Coe won 4 olympic medals to Gebs 2. Plus, 2 of his world records lasted for 16+ years. I highly doubt that in 2014 Gebs 26:22 or 12:39 will still be standing

You can disagree with me if you like, but I think that 5/10 is somewhat of a harder double than 8/15.

Geb never even attempted a 5/10 double though.

I also think Sebastian was in a much more competetive era than Geb. Geb had Paul Tergat and Daniel Komen to push him in races. Seb had about 5-10 Paul Tergats chasing him in guys like Aouita, Cram, Ovett, Scott, etc. The 80's were the most competetive era for miling (there were more sub 4's then than there were in the 90's) and Coe proved to be the most dominant. As I said earlier, I don't think Gebs world records will last as long as the 800/1000 marks set by Coe.

I guess when you get to this caliber of athletes, its more preference than anything else. I just have a hard time giving the distinction of greatest runner ever to a guy who, when he realized he wasn't going to beat Morcelli in a 3k, dogged the last 200 or so and almost got beat by Jim Spivey.

Geb's marathon is much better than Said's 800.

Utah Jamz Carl Malone wrote:

Geb never even attempted a 5/10 double though.

Gebrselassie finished 1st and 2nd in the '93 World 10 and 5k. He was also going to attempt the 5/10 double in Atlanta but got some bad blisters following the 10 final.

It's a little bit different -- racing the 8/15 and the 5/10. You run less races in the latter so it's a funny comparison.

You've gotta look at Gebrselassie's range. Among the best in the world from the 1500m to the marathon. Paavo Nurmi (and Rod Dixon to a lesser extent) are the only ones who have had such a range.

Think of it this way: Gebrselassie vs. Coe at their race distances.

800 Coe

1000 Coe

1500/mile Toss-up

3000 Geb

5000 Geb

10000 Geb

Marathon Geb

And I don't really care if he turns it off when he knows he's done in a race. It's a time trial -- he knows where his fitness is and if he wanted to he could duke it out, and he does -- when it counts.

In my opinion, greatest range doesnt always mean greatest runner.

I still think that Coe was better because he was in a much more competetive era in his respective races than Geb was. And 2 of his world records lasted 16+years. 16 years!!!I highly doubt that Gebs marks will last that long.

But, as I said earlier, I really think when you get to athletes of this level its more preference than anything.

Oh, and there is absolutely no way Geb would ever beat Sebastian in a 1500.

Trackhead ... please tell me you're joking when you say that a mile/1500m race between a 1:41 800m runner and Geb would be a 'toss-up'.

There is no way on this green and pleasant land that Geb would beat Seb in anything under 2000m.

You have a strong argument with respect to Geb's range and an equally strong case for Geb as the best of all time - you don't need to cloud the issue by exaggerating.

Seb would beat Geb in 10 out of 10 1500s. Full Stop.

Martin