Should Cheruiyot Sue?

I hate suing....

But keep this in mind...

Someone made a ton of money for deciding to put those decals down on the finish line.

onenutwillie wrote:

runningEMT wrote:

Head trama protocal:

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At what point should a medic intervene? If forinstance Cheruiyot had gotten to his feet under his own power and did not remain on ground longer than 10 seconds or so. Or if while on the ground he lifted his arm and said "hand up buddy?' and the ribbon holder helped him up.

Thanks for the clear way you explained the protocal.

Actually it is spelled protocol.

There are some tricky legal issues here.

If a patient tells the medic that he doesn't want any help and he is not to be touched, and the medic touches him anyway, the medic has just commited the crime of assault and battery (assault is me pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger intending to harm you, battery is the bullet physically touching you)

EMTs are trained to first get the patients permission before touching them. If the patient says yes they want help, no problem. If the patient is unconscious or is clearly mentally impaired, usually no problem (the EMT is covered by the good samaritan principle that if the patient can't competently state he doesn't want assistance, it can be assumed he would want assistance)

During a race you would also have to deal with the illegal assistance issue, ie: disqualification. Recently at an Ultra event the lead runner had reached the track and was on the final lap when he collapsed, his pacer (Jurek, maybe) helped him to his feet. This got him disqualified for illegal assistance. In this case Robert had finished the race and this was not an issue.

I know someone who collapsed at Grandma's this year. He made it to one of the medical tents along the race course, got some cold fluids, laid down and slept for a couple of hours. Woke up, felt better, and went on and finished the race. And since he was not given assistance forward on the course was given an official time, albeit with the biggest positive split in history.

Another factor would be what wording is in the waiver form that the runners signed. It may very well say that the race medical staff can pull runners from the course and give them treatment if they deem the runner is in medical distress, even if the runner says he doesn't want help. By signing the waiver the runner is giving permission in advance for such treatment, and acknowledges the authority of the race staff to do so.

In the specific case of Robert, Any medical people witnessing what happened should have immediately realized head trama was a possibility. He did not get up but stayed down holding his head is another sign to consider. His response to certain question should also be considered. The first one there should have asked him (without touching him) "are you ok? do you need help". If he said "No, I am OK, I do not need help", or got up under his own power would be one thing. If he gave no answer or said "yes" or said "my head hurts" or asked "what happened?" would be indications he is not OK.

At that point the medical staff should error on the side of caution, hopefully get his permission (may not be needed depending on what the waiver says, ie:he has already given it by signing), perform head trama protocol, and get him to a hospital.

Especially since there are a dozen cameras rolling, and thousands of lawyers watching.

runningEMT wrote:

(unless an emergency move is required, ie: he is on a train track and a fast train is 20 seconds away, or he is near something that is about to blow up (gas tank), or some other immediate danger that is going to kill him.

Does 40,000 runners who've been hammering for 2+ hours bearing down on his location count?

How did they cover or get rid of the slick logo once Cheruiyot fell?

Asterix wrote:

Does 40,000 runners who've been hammering for 2+ hours bearing down on his location count?

No. Emergency vehicles and personnel have right of way. It usually says so in the race info packet.

Second, it should take less than 8 minutes to get the patient on a backboard and moved. By 2:16 race time only 20 runners had finished. They could have easily gone around.

If this was mid pack and 100 runners a minute were finishing then maybe something else would have to have been done. But it looked like there was enough room so that a race official could have stood in front of the victim and told all the runners to keep to their right.

runningEMT wrote:

No. Emergency vehicles and personnel have right of way. It usually says so in the race info packet.

That's good to know, but in practice, how would it work?

As someone else pointed out in this or another related thread, there was time for him to be moved as arm chair quarterbacks would like, but the MDs on the scene may not have been aware of the time availability. All they knew was that there was a whole lot of people who would be coming fast and in a condition not too amenable to controlling where they go. Ever tried to alter your course suddenly at the end of a marathon?

I agree it looked rather haphazardly the way he was dragged off, but playing devil's advocate, the stream of finishers was pretty solid (and moving fast) by 2:20. How many collisions or crashes do you think would have happened if a group of people were huddled over someone on the ground in the middle of the finish line then, even if there were people trying to direct traffic?

Not oly year wrote:

How did they cover or get rid of the slick logo once Cheruiyot fell?

They picked it up and removed it. Watch the video. You can see that it is already gone when Abdi finishes.

In the video I saw you can see people ripping up the sign or banner that was stretched across road. And they did it rather quickly making me think that someone might have anticipated it could be a problem.

Yes, it was not intentional but I hate they way they try to cram every inch of space with some kind of sponsor or advertisement. They could have superimposed the image on the TV screen much like the NFL first down line. This way they could still get the advertising money and not have banners, signs, mats on the race course.

The finish line appeared to be wide enough to direct runners around the incident (4 lanes. Plus the repetitive logos on the overhead banner with matching clocks would have made it "sponsor desirable" to be able to re-direct. All the major marathons have wide finish lines. Boston's finish line is broken into two finish lines. London and NY have a triple finish line making it easy to re-direct the runners.

runningnerd wrote:

The finish line appeared to be wide enough to direct runners around the incident (4 lanes.

Fair enough. That wasn't evident from the video clips and it looked like Cheruiyot was smack in the middle of the lane.

Haji wrote:

In the video I saw you can see people ripping up the sign or banner that was stretched across road. And they did it rather quickly making me think that someone might have anticipated it could be a problem.

.

Failed logic. They ripped up the logo in response to what just happened. No one could have forseen this accident. Chicago marathon has had well over 100,000 runners cross the same banner in the psat without incident. Other marathon directors have reported that there has NEVER been a similar incident at their events. How could anyone except typical letsrun losers have anticipated such a freak accident?

Skuj wrote:

Head injury. Immobilize. First Aid.

Not jerk him about quickly and violently.

Wow, that's right (I just got my certifications renewed)!

Question-- when he fell, did he hit the back or front of his head?

Off the Grid wrote:

People DIE from falls - just ask Steve Cram's brother Kevin.

We're the meet directors negligent? Of course. It is their responsiblity to keep the course safe. They did not do this. If somebody slips on your new marble entry way that you just mopped clean (making it slick and wet), are you liable for any bodily harm to people who slip and fall? Of course...

Did RC suffer damage? We'll see. After severe head, neck and back trauma, people have gone to bed feeling stiff, and woken up paralyzed.

He should sue....or at the very least, not waive his rights to sue. An event of this size and budget should be run professionally. This is a business, not a bunch of teammates geting together for a Sunday run.

Look at the video closely. He slipped. He tried to drag his other foot. He landed (veryyy breifly) on his buttocks. Next to hit the ground was the back of his head. I promise you, had the buttocks not taken maybe 30% of the force, he would still be in the hospital with a skull fracture and significant brain trama

Helpful wrote:

Haji wrote:

In the video I saw you can see people ripping up the sign or banner that was stretched across road. And they did it rather quickly making me think that someone might have anticipated it could be a problem.

.

Failed logic. They ripped up the logo in response to what just happened. No one could have forseen this accident. Chicago marathon has had well over 100,000 runners cross the same banner in the psat without incident. Other marathon directors have reported that there has NEVER been a similar incident at their events. How could anyone except typical letsrun losers have anticipated such a freak accident?

Bollocks. They but a big plastic Slip n Slide across the road and you say its impossible to forsee anyone falling on it? Why not chuck banana skins and ballbearings too?

They were trying to make a fast buck selling a bit of extra ad space and they f**ked up. Now they must pay.

Sue their asses...ya think La Salle Banks ain't never sued nobody?

Wow, so if he hit the back of his head, wouldn't that possibly impair his motor coordination? This is scary. Any updates on his condition (I'm on a dial-up, no videos please)?

jaguar1 wrote:

Wow, so if he hit the back of his head, wouldn't that possibly impair his motor coordination? This is scary. Any updates on his condition (I'm on a dial-up, no videos please)?

Jag:

"By Michelle Keller

Tribune staff reporter

Published October 23, 2006, 3:43 PM CDT

The winner of the LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon will be released from Northwestern Memorial Hospital Tuesday following treatment for a fall at the finish line that left him with a brain bruise and minor bleeding over the surface of his brain, officials said today.

A collective gasp could be heard at the race Sunday as Kenyan runner Robert Cheruiyot slipped merely inches from the finish line and slammed backwards onto the asphalt.

He was taken to Northwestern Memorial and underwent several extensive neurological examinations, including three CT scans, neurologist Wesley Yapor said at an afternoon news conference today. Doctors have advised Cheruiyot to take one to three months off before he begins running again.

"We feel that he's going to make a full recovery," Yapor said, citing the runner's peak physical shape. "He's going to recover faster than the lion's share of patients with this type of injury."

Although the spill took place by a decal placed just before the finish line, Frederico Rosa, Cheruiyot's manager, said the 28-year-old runner likely just lost his footing and was hesitant to blame the decal. Race organizers said the decal has been in place there for past marathons.

Carey Pinkowski, the race's executive director, said his staff would take a close look at the decal to see whether it was the cause of the runner's fall. "We'll look at all elements of the event," he said.

Declared the official winner of the 26.2-mile race, Cheruiyot completed it in 2 hours 7 minutes 35 seconds, taking home the $125,000 men's first prize.

Cheruiyot was also the winner of the Boston Marathon in 2006. He will head to Italy in the next few days, barring any developments in his health status, before going back to Kenya."

Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune

I'm not a big fan of lawsuits but given the severe nature of his injury, the fact that the doctors recommend 1-3 MONTHS of downtime from training, and that the decal was an advertisement, not something that needed to be at the finish line, I would be filing a lawsuit.

I don't think he needs to try to get millions or anything like that. If it were me, I would say a fair compensation for potential lost wages (3 months off work, plus probably another 3 out of peak shape...6 months earnings), something for the suffering (maybe equal to the lost wages), and most importantly the last condition would be that no banners or potentially hazardous surfaces would be placed anywhere a runner could conceivably step on them. Make the sponsors put the finish banner 30 yards past the finish.

So maybe he sues for $200-$500k and a promise not to endanger anyone else with these stupid banners.

Helpful wrote:

Haji wrote:

In the video I saw you can see people ripping up the sign or banner that was stretched across road. And they did it rather quickly making me think that someone might have anticipated it could be a problem.

.

Failed logic. They ripped up the logo in response to what just happened. No one could have forseen this accident. Chicago marathon has had well over 100,000 runners cross the same banner in the psat without incident. Other marathon directors

have reported that there has NEVER been a similar incident at their events. How could anyone except typical letsrun losers have anticipated such a freak accident?

*****

No one could have forseen that someone might slip and fall on a wet slick surface, WTF??????

Maybe next year they should hire a typical letsrun loser to work the finish and point out obvious stupid shit to typical dumbasses like you.

fetet wrote:

They had warning signs up, it was his fault.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asubryan/detail?.dir=34f2scd&.dnm=df2cscd.jpg&.src=ph

I think those signs were for people who weren't racing...you have to cross the timing mat to get your chip registered.[/quote]

Okay, here ya go.

[/quote]

Well that explains it all.