onenutwillie wrote:
runningEMT wrote:Head trama protocal:
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At what point should a medic intervene? If forinstance Cheruiyot had gotten to his feet under his own power and did not remain on ground longer than 10 seconds or so. Or if while on the ground he lifted his arm and said "hand up buddy?' and the ribbon holder helped him up.
Thanks for the clear way you explained the protocal.
Actually it is spelled protocol.
There are some tricky legal issues here.
If a patient tells the medic that he doesn't want any help and he is not to be touched, and the medic touches him anyway, the medic has just commited the crime of assault and battery (assault is me pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger intending to harm you, battery is the bullet physically touching you)
EMTs are trained to first get the patients permission before touching them. If the patient says yes they want help, no problem. If the patient is unconscious or is clearly mentally impaired, usually no problem (the EMT is covered by the good samaritan principle that if the patient can't competently state he doesn't want assistance, it can be assumed he would want assistance)
During a race you would also have to deal with the illegal assistance issue, ie: disqualification. Recently at an Ultra event the lead runner had reached the track and was on the final lap when he collapsed, his pacer (Jurek, maybe) helped him to his feet. This got him disqualified for illegal assistance. In this case Robert had finished the race and this was not an issue.
I know someone who collapsed at Grandma's this year. He made it to one of the medical tents along the race course, got some cold fluids, laid down and slept for a couple of hours. Woke up, felt better, and went on and finished the race. And since he was not given assistance forward on the course was given an official time, albeit with the biggest positive split in history.
Another factor would be what wording is in the waiver form that the runners signed. It may very well say that the race medical staff can pull runners from the course and give them treatment if they deem the runner is in medical distress, even if the runner says he doesn't want help. By signing the waiver the runner is giving permission in advance for such treatment, and acknowledges the authority of the race staff to do so.
In the specific case of Robert, Any medical people witnessing what happened should have immediately realized head trama was a possibility. He did not get up but stayed down holding his head is another sign to consider. His response to certain question should also be considered. The first one there should have asked him (without touching him) "are you ok? do you need help". If he said "No, I am OK, I do not need help", or got up under his own power would be one thing. If he gave no answer or said "yes" or said "my head hurts" or asked "what happened?" would be indications he is not OK.
At that point the medical staff should error on the side of caution, hopefully get his permission (may not be needed depending on what the waiver says, ie:he has already given it by signing), perform head trama protocol, and get him to a hospital.
Especially since there are a dozen cameras rolling, and thousands of lawyers watching.