AK-47 wrote:
Ngeny, Cram, and Bannister would be as high or higher than Ryun.
No, Bannister is not higher than Ryun. He was weeks from being a minor piece of trivia. He set a record once, which was quickly beaten. Yes, it was a big record, but it was going soon regardless. Bannister is a great person but in no way does he eclipse Ryun as a miler.
SB wrote:
qucassidy wrote:Hey, I didn't say Steve Scott "would have" or "could have"
broken 4 minutes for the mile more then anyone in history ... he did do it.
so what??? why do you use 4:00, an arbitrary time that well over 10 seconds from the WR during his career, as a benchmark. If you wanted to use 3:50, I might buy it, or most times within 5sec of world record, but 4:00 is a useful standard to millions of people ... who lived before 1960. Or are in high school. It hasn't been the mark of a "great" miler in decades.
yes, for example....how many times has El G broken 3:30? probably two dozen or more
how many times has Steve Scott broken 3:30? zero
This list is a joke. It should be renamed "The Best White milers who competed between 1952 and 1984."
Even if you leave aside the obvious racial bias, the list excludes dominant milers from other eras. No Walter George, no Paavo Nurmi, no Gunder Haag.
Keino was a great Olympic champion with medals in the 1500 & 5000. Ben Jipcho use to outrun Ryun almost every night in the professional ITA circuit back in the 70's. I watched one of those races in Detroit. Ryun had a short period at the top much like some high school swimmers.
It would be a crime if you did not consider the arguably greatest miler in American history: GLENN CUNNINGHAM.
4:06 world record in the mile in 1934.
Top 7 (No Order)
Landy
Snell
Ryun
Walker
Coe
Morcelli
El Guerroj
Next 7 (The JV)
Elliot-Only because too short of a career
Banister
Coughlin
Cram
Ovett
Scott
Hagg and Anderson (tie)
paul_bunyan wrote:
Keino was a great Olympic champion with medals in the 1500 & 5000. Ben Jipcho use to outrun Ryun almost every night in the professional ITA circuit back in the 70's. I watched one of those races in Detroit. Ryun had a short period at the top much like some high school swimmers.
OH, NO, RYUN WAS DOMINANT IN HIS TIME WITH A WORLD RECORD IN THE MILE AND A SILVER MEDAL IN THE OLYMPICS, HE ALSO RAN 1:44 FOR THE HALF MILE AND HE BEAT KEINO IN A TWO MILE IN LOS ANGELES IN ABOUT 8:26...RYUN RETIRED BUT CAME BACK TO QUALIFY FOR WHAT, A THIRD OLYMPICS, ONLY TO FALL IN AN OLYMPIC TRIAL, BY THE TIME HE GOT TO PRO TRACK HE WAS WELL PAST HIS PRIME, NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM JIPCHO, HE WAS A GOOD AND CLEAN RUNNER, BUT DON'T EMBARASS YOURSELF BY SAYING HE WAS AS GOOD AS JIM RYUN. WITH EPO RYUN RUNS 3:41 BUT NO, JIM WOULD NOT CHEAT......WITH EPO JIM WOULD HAVE ALSO RUN 1:40 FOR 800M AND 7:58 FOR TWO MILES....FLAT OUT TALENT? NOBODY WAS EVER MORE TALENTED THAN THAT 17 YR OLD WHO RAN 3:54
[quote]I am Pandapas wrote:
But watch out for Webb ... once he recovers from
his ailments, and with his new found endurance
base, he could get down to 3:42 ...
NOPE, I WISH THE GUY ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD BUT UNLESS HE GOES EPO, HE WON'T RUN FASTER THAN 3;49 --- AS THAT IS MAN'S LIMIT WITHOUT THE DRUG. LET HIM TRAIN FOR THAT 3;49 AND THEN HOPE THE DRUGGIES ARE CAUGHT OR TOO AFRAID TO SHOW UP AT THE OLYMPICS FOR FEAR OF BEING CAUGHT....
winston kingston wrote:
NOBODY WAS EVER MORE TALENTED THAN THAT 17 YR OLD WHO RAN 3:54
What about that one 18 year-old fellow who ran 3:53 a few years ago? I can't think of his name.....someone help me out here. (Oh, and by the way, Ryun was 18 when he ran 3:55)
the thing to do would be to STATISTICLY compare times of SEVERAL elite athletes who were in their prime as all weather tracks were being introduced....
i would wager that the differance is no were near as significant as many were seem to assume.
for instance look at the record progression of the 800m
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_84.pdf
and the 1500
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_74.pdf
these would seem that the switch from cinder to all weather had very little effect on record times at these distances.
yeah i know im going to be ripped for spelling and grammer..but whatever.
When making a list like this you must consider the best in comparison to their era, not what you think they would have done in another. Thus, my list of the top 7 milers:
1. El G.
2. Kip Keino
3. Jim Ryun
4. John Walker
5. Seb Coe
6. Morceli
7. Elliot
8, 9, and 10 would be Bannister, Snell, and Cram.
What about that one 18 year-old fellow who ran 3:53 a few years ago? I can't think of his name.....someone help me out here. (Oh, and by the way, Ryun was 18 when he ran 3:55)[/quote]
More talented than Jim Ryun??? Don't embarass yourself, Ryun held the world record, got silver in the oly., ran 1;44 for the half and could run 46 for the quarter, I like the Webbster, but he's no Jim Ryun.
winston kingston wrote:
What about that one 18 year-old fellow who ran 3:53 a few years ago? I can't think of his name.....someone help me out here. (Oh, and by the way, Ryun was 18 when he ran 3:55)
More talented than Jim Ryun??? Don't embarass yourself, Ryun held the world record, got silver in the oly., ran 1;44 for the half and could run 46 for the quarter, I like the Webbster, but he's no Jim Ryun.[/quote]
this is the first time i've actually agreed with this guy
winston kingston wrote:
More talented than Jim Ryun??? Don't embarass yourself, Ryun held the world record, got silver in the oly., ran 1;44 for the half and could run 46 for the quarter, I like the Webbster, but he's no Jim Ryun.
Webb has run 3:48, has the american record in the two mile, is a 13:10 5k runner. Oh he runs a 46 quarter too.
You guys have to be kidding me... right... its the age old question of technology vs old school... get it through your heads, today's athletes are just better, just like in any other sport.
Look at the progression of early 50's basketball to today, do you honestly think George Mikan could stand a chance to Shaq, no way. And playing the "well, he's got so much talent, i mean, Jim Ryan ran uphill everyday to school in 3 feet of snow..." So what, his PR is still 8 seconds from El G.
If you honestly think EL G wasn't the greatest miler to ever live, then your messed up.
mile
1500
Thats all-time... and you think ryun was even close to that dominant...no way... el G takes up half the page!!!!
A better list would be.
El G
Morcelli
Cram
Ngeny
Walker
Scott
Ryun
Its bogus, the hole cinder this, cinder that, didn't really have that much affect on people... I mean, Coe's 1000 record stood for 20 years and he ran it on cinder, maybe its really worth 2:08...c'mon... grow some brains people...
No one is saying that the older guys weren't amazing, but the athletes evolve, and to say one is better if they "had this or had that" is totally out of whack. Thats the glory of our sport, the time holds for ever.
If you want to get into the hole equipment speal, then maybe we should be talking about guys who ran 4:20 back in the 1910's, or talk about cycling.
If you honestly think EL G wasn't the greatest miler to ever live, then your messed up.
IF YOU THINK EL G DID IT WITHOUT EPO YOU ARE A FOOL.
Webb has run 3:48, has the american record in the two mile, is a 13:10 5k runner. Oh he runs a 46 quarter too.[/quote]
Hey, I root for the guy but I think he went epo in order to compete with the fraudulent Africans.... With epo Ryun would have run 3:41.
honey come back to your room. it's time for me to change your diapers.
winston kingston wrote:
If you honestly think EL G wasn't the greatest miler to ever live, then your messed up.
IF YOU THINK EL G DID IT WITHOUT EPO YOU ARE A FOOL.
[quote]Giddy wrote:
You guys have to be kidding me... right... its the age old question of technology vs old school... get it through your heads, today's athletes are just better, just like in any other sport.
Not so fast. The athletes of the 60s/70s are as good if not better than the guys of the 2000s. AND THEY DID IT WITHOUT DRUGS, STUPID. Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Jimmy Brown, Roger Staubach, Wilt Chamberlain, Jim Ryun, Lasse Viren, Jack Nicklaus, Mark Spitz, TAKE A BACK SEAT TO NO ONE.