So… for how long will Joshua’s 5000/1000 WR stand?

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Nordic r wrote:

He might have two ”lost” seasons. But it was only a year ago when Ingebrigtsen was so insanely good that - as Almgren phrased it - opening the first 3k in 7:40 and closing the last 2k in 4:54 isnt that difficult for Jakob.

Okay, but what's your point and the relevancy? Has he not lost these seasons to a pretty serious injury that required going under the knife or have I got that wrong?

I'm not disputing he wasn't insanely good and I don't need the comments of Almgren to have confirmed that. Multiple things can be true at the same time and yeah he was insanely good and yeah he's just lost two years of arguably the back side of his career peak because of this.

Give me one guy that came back from surgery to set a WR in the mens middle distances, ever? I can only think of Geb coming back from his achilles surgery in 2004 and setting the marathon WR in 2008 but the intensity (and now level) of mens track records are on a different level. If there has been it hasn't been in the last 30 years.

Sometimes these emotional blinders go on when it comes to wanting to see an athlete come back we bypass reality. Surgery for an athlete at this level of the sport is a really serious thing. It takes more to recover from than even the athletes themselves know and it's not just the physical and mental tax, it's that to even get to the point it's necessary, it's symptomatic of the body saying what you're doing isn't good. So the irony is that the very work that Jakob was doing to even get to his level was simply not sustainable and unlikely to be sustainable when he comes back - in fact his breaking point is going to be a fraction of what it was prior to this.

So maybe 7.40 + 4.54 wasn't hard 2 years ago. It is now.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Nordic r wrote:

He might have two ”lost” seasons. But it was only a year ago when Ingebrigtsen was so insanely good that - as Almgren phrased it - opening the first 3k in 7:40 and closing the last 2k in 4:54 isnt that difficult for Jakob.

Okay, but what's your point and the relevancy? Has he not lost these seasons to a pretty serious injury that required going under the knife or have I got that wrong?

I'm not disputing he wasn't insanely good and I don't need the comments of Almgren to have confirmed that. Multiple things can be true at the same time and yeah he was insanely good and yeah he's just lost two years of arguably the back side of his career peak because of this.

Give me one guy that came back from surgery to set a WR in the mens middle distances, ever? I can only think of Geb coming back from his achilles surgery in 2004 and setting the marathon WR in 2008 but the intensity (and now level) of mens track records are on a different level. If there has been it hasn't been in the last 30 years.

Sometimes these emotional blinders go on when it comes to wanting to see an athlete come back we bypass reality. Surgery for an athlete at this level of the sport is a really serious thing. It takes more to recover from than even the athletes themselves know and it's not just the physical and mental tax, it's that to even get to the point it's necessary, it's symptomatic of the body saying what you're doing isn't good. So the irony is that the very work that Jakob was doing to even get to his level was simply not sustainable and unlikely to be sustainable when he comes back - in fact his breaking point is going to be a fraction of what it was prior to this.

So maybe 7.40 + 4.54 wasn't hard 2 years ago. It is now.

birdbeard wrote:

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Okay, but what's your point and the relevancy? Has he not lost these seasons to a pretty serious injury that required going under the knife or have I got that wrong?

I'm not disputing he wasn't insanely good and I don't need the comments of Almgren to have confirmed that. Multiple things can be true at the same time and yeah he was insanely good and yeah he's just lost two years of arguably the back side of his career peak because of this.

Give me one guy that came back from surgery to set a WR in the mens middle distances, ever? I can only think of Geb coming back from his achilles surgery in 2004 and setting the marathon WR in 2008 but the intensity (and now level) of mens track records are on a different level. If there has been it hasn't been in the last 30 years.

Sometimes these emotional blinders go on when it comes to wanting to see an athlete come back we bypass reality. Surgery for an athlete at this level of the sport is a really serious thing. It takes more to recover from than even the athletes themselves know and it's not just the physical and mental tax, it's that to even get to the point it's necessary, it's symptomatic of the body saying what you're doing isn't good. So the irony is that the very work that Jakob was doing to even get to his level was simply not sustainable and unlikely to be sustainable when he comes back - in fact his breaking point is going to be a fraction of what it was prior to this.

So maybe 7.40 + 4.54 wasn't hard 2 years ago. It is now.

+1 to this, but additionally, he'll be 26 before he is back to 100%, even by his best estimation. He could still pop a good 5K, but runners tend to run their best 5000 in their early 20s. With the fact that he was aerobically developed early in life, I think that's even more likely true of Jakob.

Age @ PR:

1. Cheptegei 23y337d

2. Gebrhiwet 30y19d

3. Bekele 21y353d

4. Kejelcha 26y303d

5. Gebrselassie 25y56d

6. Komen 21y97d

7. Aregawi 22y122d

8. Kiplimo 23y198d

9. T. Bekele 24y69d

10. Barega 18y223d

OACHaterzz wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

+1 to this, but additionally, he'll be 26 before he is back to 100%, even by his best estimation. He could still pop a good 5K, but runners tend to run their best 5000 in their early 20s. With the fact that he was aerobically developed early in life, I think that's even more likely true of Jakob.

Age @ PR:

1. Cheptegei 23y337d

2. Gebrhiwet 30y19d

3. Bekele 21y353d

4. Kejelcha 26y303d

5. Gebrselassie 25y56d

6. Komen 21y97d

7. Aregawi 22y122d

8. Kiplimo 23y198d

9. T. Bekele 24y69d

10. Barega 18y223d

We need to chill with the pretentious takes. One of your examples kind of disproves everything you are saying. Hagos Gebriwhet ran 12:36.73 in Oslo at the age of 30? So age doesn't have to be a limiting factor in an era with improved medicine and therapies. And I wouldn't call 12:36.73 just 'good,' especially when it had a 55 second last lap and a 7:28 last 3000m. I think what played into his favor is he had the perfect pacer in Kejelcha, Jakob could find a race like that with Almgren and others pushing ahead of him and sharing the pace.

Gebriwhet also ran 12:47.53 in 2012 when he was 18 or 19 years old? That's better than Jakob's 3:31 at 18 so I'm not so sure being aerobically developed early in life has to do with anything. Gebriwhet has also suffered from a past achilles injury which kept him out for 6 months and the 2017 WC:

Open link

Jakob's surgery wasn't even that invasive. He started running a few weeks after it as it only served in removing scar tissue from the sheath of his achilles. I think he'll get to his best again eventually.

birdbeard wrote:

OACHaterzz wrote:

We need to chill with the pretentious takes. One of your examples kind of disproves everything you are saying. Hagos Gebriwhet ran 12:36.73 in Oslo at the age of 30? So age doesn't have to be a limiting factor in an era with improved medicine and therapies. And I wouldn't call 12:36.73 just 'good,' especially when it had a 55 second last lap and a 7:28 last 3000m. I think what played into his favor is he had the perfect pacer in Kejelcha, Jakob could find a race like that with Almgren and others pushing ahead of him and sharing the pace.

Gebriwhet also ran 12:47.53 in 2012 when he was 18 or 19 years old? That's better than Jakob's 3:31 at 18 so I'm not so sure being aerobically developed early in life has to do with anything. Gebriwhet has also suffered from a past achilles injury which kept him out for 6 months and the 2017 WC:

Open link

Jakob's surgery wasn't even that invasive. He started running a few weeks after it as it only served in removing scar tissue from the sheath of his achilles. I think he'll get to his best again eventually.

It’s an average, ya simpleton. Hagos is an outlier.

that isn’t a list of “my examples” — it is the all time list. Most were younger.