Just about every single runner who was and is faster than him in the marathon doesn't go that far. It's not necessary or even optimal.
But he beat many runners who were faster than he was when he made the Olympic team and when he came fifth at Boston. Maybe for him those runs were necessary and optimal.
If he spent more time running threshold pace and less time breaking down his body with 30 mile runs at a slow pace he might have been faster than a 2:20 marathoner. He was running at a time where no one was doing 'real' mileage. Again, look at any sub 2:10 runner today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any who run 30 mile long runs, and that's because it is more detrimental to running fast marathons than helpful. It's overkill and reduces your speed.
I can see the benifit of 30 mile runs. A large part of running a marathon is that little bit of doubt at the start line. If you run several 30 milers, I think you can toe the line feeling more confident. Just my 2c
But he beat many runners who were faster than he was when he made the Olympic team and when he came fifth at Boston. Maybe for him those runs were necessary and optimal.
If he spent more time running threshold pace and less time breaking down his body with 30 mile runs at a slow pace he might have been faster than a 2:20 marathoner. He was running at a time where no one was doing 'real' mileage. Again, look at any sub 2:10 runner today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any who run 30 mile long runs, and that's because it is more detrimental to running fast marathons than helpful. It's overkill and reduces your speed.
Give me a choice between making and Olympic team with a best of 2:20 or so and running a 2:10 or so marathon and I'll choose the Olympic team. And where do you get the idea that a ) Daws 30 mile runs were slow and b) no one then was doing "real" mileage? Hundred mile weeks became common when people learned about Lydiard in the early 60s. Guys like Gerry Lindgren, Lou Scott, and Jeff Julian, all Olympians, spent significant time above 200 a week. If Daws training was so bad how did he beat all those faster guys whose training was better?
I just finished reading Self-Made Olympian, and I was baffled by how routinely Ron Daws was doing 30-mile long runs. Was this typical for runners from that era? I can’t think of any U.S.-based pros who go that far now.
it’s a great book too btw.
Alberto Salazar did 35 miles uphill.
galen Rupp did 20 miles fast.
the 2 greats, undisputed goats of American distance running.
But he beat many runners who were faster than he was when he made the Olympic team and when he came fifth at Boston. Maybe for him those runs were necessary and optimal.
If he spent more time running threshold pace and less time breaking down his body with 30 mile runs at a slow pace he might have been faster than a 2:20 marathoner. He was running at a time where no one was doing 'real' mileage. Again, look at any sub 2:10 runner today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any who run 30 mile long runs, and that's because it is more detrimental to running fast marathons than helpful. It's overkill and reduces your speed.
Y'all are crazy. So if Kipchoge would have done a bunch of 30+ mile long runs instead of his 120 mile weeks with 20-25 mile long runs he would have run a few minutes faster? Like I said, most of the fastest guys in the world don't train like that. They train optimally, and 30+ mile long runs is going to reduce your speed. I could get on board with one long run that long during a build, but definitely not a regular thing.
If he spent more time running threshold pace and less time breaking down his body with 30 mile runs at a slow pace he might have been faster than a 2:20 marathoner. He was running at a time where no one was doing 'real' mileage. Again, look at any sub 2:10 runner today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any who run 30 mile long runs, and that's because it is more detrimental to running fast marathons than helpful. It's overkill and reduces your speed.
Y'all are crazy. So if Kipchoge would have done a bunch of 30+ mile long runs instead of his 120 mile weeks with 20-25 mile long runs he would have run a few minutes faster? Like I said, most of the fastest guys in the world don't train like that. They train optimally, and 30+ mile long runs is going to reduce your speed. I could get on board with one long run that long during a build, but definitely not a regular thing.
Daws made an Olympic team. You haven't yet. I think he had a better idea of what he needed to do than you do. Speed was not much of an issue in the '68 Marathon Trial being run at over 7,000 feet and anyway there's no reason to believe that somewhere between 25 and 30 miles you cross a line and your speed diminishes. Guys like Kenny Moore and Rob DeCastella did 30 mile runs regularly and had very competitive track times.
If he spent more time running threshold pace and less time breaking down his body with 30 mile runs at a slow pace he might have been faster than a 2:20 marathoner. He was running at a time where no one was doing 'real' mileage. Again, look at any sub 2:10 runner today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any who run 30 mile long runs, and that's because it is more detrimental to running fast marathons than helpful. It's overkill and reduces your speed.
Y'all are crazy. So if Kipchoge would have done a bunch of 30+ mile long runs instead of his 120 mile weeks with 20-25 mile long runs he would have run a few minutes faster? Like I said, most of the fastest guys in the world don't train like that. They train optimally, and 30+ mile long runs is going to reduce your speed. I could get on board with one long run that long during a build, but definitely not a regular thing.
Distance events don't rely on speed. Guys who are winning marathons don't stay up at night worrying about their 800 meters.
In the 1970s, we once did a 20 mile run as a group in 2 hours and 25 minutes. (Well, that is what they told us.) We stopped every 5 miles for soda pop, crackers, and cookies! Our weekly training was 3/4 mile loop, 1.5 mile loop, 2 1/4 miles loop, 1.5 mile loop, 3/4 mile loop at least one day per week. We also did stuff like 4 X 1000, 10 X 600, 5 X 800, but we never went less than 600 yards.
Everything was timed, including the recovery which was typically between 1 minute and 3 minutes depending on what we did. One year we had a good team so we did a 5 miler one day per week for the first six weeks of he season. That was call "overdistance," the rest was called "underdistance."
We did mostly underdistance and everything was timed and given to us later on paper. That was cross country. Track was similar, except we did a lot less! (In those days we did have Runner's World so by my junior year I started to do some longer runs during the off-season. That was a huge change from what we did during the season, so it did not help much!) What we did was hard interval training! We were over-raced and yet undertrained!
Y'all are crazy. So if Kipchoge would have done a bunch of 30+ mile long runs instead of his 120 mile weeks with 20-25 mile long runs he would have run a few minutes faster? Like I said, most of the fastest guys in the world don't train like that. They train optimally, and 30+ mile long runs is going to reduce your speed. I could get on board with one long run that long during a build, but definitely not a regular thing.
Daws made an Olympic team. You haven't yet. I think he had a better idea of what he needed to do than you do. Speed was not much of an issue in the '68 Marathon Trial being run at over 7,000 feet and anyway there's no reason to believe that somewhere between 25 and 30 miles you cross a line and your speed diminishes. Guys like Kenny Moore and Rob DeCastella did 30 mile runs regularly and had very competitive track times.
Daws made an Olympic team. You haven't yet. I think he had a better idea of what he needed to do than you do. Speed was not much of an issue in the '68 Marathon Trial being run at over 7,000 feet and anyway there's no reason to believe that somewhere between 25 and 30 miles you cross a line and your speed diminishes. Guys like Kenny Moore and Rob DeCastella did 30 mile runs regularly and had very competitive track times.
