2-time world xc champ Craig Virgin talks about XC.... And we listen.

Coghlan was never a good cross country runner. I think his participation in Limerick was more out of obligation to the lads and National pride.

Craig and I are friends since the late 70's and we worked together on several events during the early days of his business. What I remember about his workouts was that they were very methodical and he was acutely aware of his body and his ability to perform. I remember one day at the track he was doing repeat 440s and he was able to tell the difference between a 60.2 and a 60.4. He trained quality over quantity and rarely did a long run. I was in Boston when he ran second against Seko. They ran together for several miles as Craig was constantly talking - he loved to talk! I figured one of three things were going to happen. 1. Seko was going to kill himself, or 2. Seko would drop out or 3. Seko would run away from Craig. In regard to Moscow, I think Craig was a solid silver and maybe a gold but Yifter had his number. I have stories that could fill a book. But at the end of the day he was definitely one of the greatest US distance runners.

From the NY Times:

Running on his 29th birthday, Eamonn Coghlan passed Henry Rono of Kenya in the final 75 yards yesterday to win the second New York Road Runners Club International invitation cross-country meet at Belmont Park.

At best, IMO, Virgin would have finished 5th, at best. The first four were 55 sec or better for the last 400, Virgin might have been able to finish in 59 sec. Review the '79 World Cup 10,000m to get an idea of how Virgin would have looked in Moscow on the last lap. The final was three days after the preliminary rounds, run on a hot day. In the final, if he made it, he would not have been fresh like he was in his PB races. 27:45 would have been a greta run for him. The final was filled with surges and the medalists were not far off Virgin's PB on an optimal night in Paris. It is highly unlikely that Virgin would have dropped any of the top five and four of the five would likely have crushed him.

Coming from you of all people I'm surprised?

Want me to put it in terms that even Eamonn would approve of? And I have tremendous respect for him. Eamonn sucked at cross country. Just sayin.

Craig Virgin was diagnosed with a congenital kidney disease as a child. Even had surgeries for it. He was left with reduced kidney function that's continued to affect him. He had kidney problems before he started running, so it wasn't the running that caused them.

He became great in spite of this. Great success story.

Craig Virgin could not run sub 13 second pace per 100 meters for a 300m rep. No chance in hell. That would make him a 51 sec 400m runner. No way. He could run a 54 at best. He had no speed. Pre and Lindgren had better speed than Virgin. Virgin couldn’t even win the 1600 state title his senior year of high school. He got outkicked. His lifeline 800 pb was like 1:55. He even told us that when he talked to my cross country team my junior year. I call BS. You never trained with Craig. You made up a story.

I think it was in one of the How They Train booklets that printed the results of Craig Virgin's senior year, he ran a tremendous amount of fast races. In his HS career he broke 9:00 about 18 times, and in one of those races it was so hot the track was melting. I hope someone here can find and print those results.

The difference between 60.2 and 60.4 is one yard. What’s the difference between Seko dropping out and Seko killing himself? Was he carrying a knife in case committing harakiri became necessary?

Coghlan has a very funny take on the Limerick race in a Treacy biography. What was different in those years was that most distance runners in Europe and Canada were club based. Growing up in Canada, running identity was with the club, not the school. Provincial championships in cross country and road relays were very important and fun with all the inter-club rivalry. Making a provincial or national team meant a chance to have paid for travel. I think in NZ in the 50's into the 70's it was especially that way with NZ being quite poor and an expensive place to travel from.

Club loyalty was very important.

What it all comes down to is that the cross country Americans grow up running is not the same sport as international cross country. Different distances, different course layouts, and different seasons. For Americans, cross country is a fall sport that is followed by indoor track in the winter and outdoor track in the spring. It is a regimented schedule that is second nature to Americans by the time they get to college. The world cross champs, however, are almost always held in March. No American grows up thinking about cross country in March. Their focus is two seasons on at that point. Add in the fact that there are no appearance fees and relatively small prize purses (if any) for world cross and it is very easy to understand why American pros (and American fans) generally don’t care.

Yeah I think that race with the track melting was in Centrailia. Southern Illinois can get in the 100s in the late spring. And he did break 9 that day for the still standing 3200m track meet record.

Stupid on an epic scale.

July 18, 1978 - PM 3 miles easy, 2400 6:27 (67,67, 59,59, 67,67), 1600 (4:15), 1200 (3:05), 1.5 miles easy, 6x300 (51, 47, 45, 43, 41, 38.5), 2 miles easy

Craig ran the State mile after winning the two mile in 8:42.

4/07 8:50.4 2 mile & 4:17 relay leg
4/24 8:55.6 & 4:16.6 St Clair County meet
4/28 8:59.0 Granite City Invite
5/02 9:24.2 O'Falon Relays
5/03 4:27.9, 2:02.1 Conference meet
5/05 8:46.6, 4:11.8 relay Orphan Relays
5/15 8:54.0, Cahokia Invite
5/18 8:53.6, 4:10.9 District
5/21 8:48.6, 4:08.5 Meet of Champions
5/25 4:10.0 State meet heat
5/26 8:42, 4:12.2 State finals
6/01 4:05.5 Top 10 meet
6/09 8:40.9 Intl Prep Invite - HS 2 mile record
6/23 13:36.8 3 mile at Ntl Jr AAU
7/04 4:06.1 Freedom Mile (5th)
7/14 8:10.2 3000 for 3rd vs West German Jrs
7/20 8:16.0 3000 win vs Poland Jrs
7/28 13:58.2 5000 win vs USSR Jrs

No, that race was the IPI race in Mt. Prospect, IL northwest of Chicago where Craig broke Pre's high school record 8:40.9. The rubberized asphalt track was literally melting.

It’s not stupid. I never said he wasn’t doubling back from the 3200. I know he ran 8:42. He also lost the 1600m final and finished second. And for his splits from the workout on July 18th you typed out above his meet schedule…whoop de doo. You typed out some numbers. That’s not evidence those splits including the sub 39 last 300 happened. It might have been written as a mistake. That doesn’t count as evidence, it’s probably an error, and Craig Virgin could not run 51 400 pace. Sorry, not buying it.

Well then Virgin misremembered his own race schedule, because he unmistakably told my team 20 years ago that race was in Centrailia. But it’s no big deal. He may have just misremembered. If you insist it was in Mt. Prospect then fine.

You really need to stop this nonsense. First you tell me that I'm lying about a workout that Craig and I ran at our Summer base in Växjö, Sweden in 1978. Now you want to blame him for "misremembering" where his high school record 8:40.9 race was?

The Yahoo who's misremembering sheet is clearly you. Why are you even posting on this thread?

Craig Virgin has talked to many people over the years and has said that he is very glib. We should be rooting for him and the other legends to have the opportunity to announce one of the Olympic Races. As for Craig's top speed, like most of us, he was probably never tested in ideal conditions for his top 400 speed. Craig was a phenomenon, but I doubt anyone could run the times he ran with a top 400 at only 54! (I am not saying that he ever actually ran a 400 faster than 54, just that he never really got the opportunity to see what he could do at the shorter distances.) Certainly, if he dialed back his training for a few weeks and concentrated on hitting 51 in the 400, he might have come very close to that!