I was wondering why this was getting heavily downvoted, as I agree with the sentiment of the title, but then I read the utter wank in the description and quickly realised why.
I mean, obviously long runs aren't essential for 5k and 10k training. The European record holder at 5k and the HM, Andreas Almgren, has said that he basically doesn't run any longer than 50 minutes continuously outside of his base phase.
And Jakob never runs longer than 80 minutes.
People have romanticised the long run to a certain extent, but outside of race-specific training, it's probably the run in which you're most likely to get yourself in trouble (from an overtraining/injury perspective).
Almgren doesn't do long runs during base either. There is no need for that if you're doing up to 210 km/week and 4 threshold sessions.
I was wondering why this was getting heavily downvoted, as I agree with the sentiment of the title, but then I read the utter wank in the description and quickly realised why.
I mean, obviously long runs aren't essential for 5k and 10k training. The European record holder at 5k and the HM, Andreas Almgren, has said that he basically doesn't run any longer than 50 minutes continuously outside of his base phase.
And Jakob never runs longer than 80 minutes.
People have romanticised the long run to a certain extent, but outside of race-specific training, it's probably the run in which you're most likely to get yourself in trouble (from an overtraining/injury perspective).
Almgren doesn't do long runs during base either. There is no need for that if you're doing up to 210 km/week and 4 threshold sessions.
El G was also known for a long run that topped out at about 75-79 minutes, the only difference is he was covering 25km in that time. His usual longer efforts stayed around 20km. All apart of his training focus to maximize time at LT1.
Maybe Jakob needs to drop the LT2 stuff and try the El G "everyday is aerobic threshold day" training.
I think it's pretty common knowledge around here that total weekly volume is far more important than running a long run in each week.
True.
But also common knowledge :
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
I thought the same damny thing. That has to be a bot, right? The way the OP wrote but then I did look up an IP address from Germany.
Either a bot or hobbs kessler?
Hobbs, back when I was training I didn't feel like i was even wamred up until I was 45 minutes into daily afternoon 10-15 miler. Running for an hour several times a week isn't a lot
Hobbs is putting the work in. Keep in mind that Rojo and Hobbs' physiologies aren't in the same universe.
From Hobbs' Strava:
09:06 on Monday, 1 December 2025 Coconino National Forest, USA Morning Run Distance 9.65 km Pace 4:29 /km Time 43m 22s
16:14 on Monday, 1 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Strides in da cold Distance 9.65 km Pace 4:24 /km Time 42m 31s
08:23 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Wu Distance 4.04 km Pace 4:38 /km Time 18m 45s
08:58 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 5x6min Distance 10.20 km Pace 3:43 /km Time 37m 53s
15:35 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA 4s Distance 15.17 km Pace 4:11 /km Time 1h 3m
09:36 on Wednesday, 3 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Morning Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:39 /km Time 44m 57s
15:21 on Wednesday, 3 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Afternoon Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:34 /km Time 44m 5s
10:32 on Thursday, 4 December 2025 Coconino National Forest, USA Hills Distance 14.33 km Elev Gain 416 m Time 1h 1m
17:42 on Thursday, 4 December 2025 7x3mins Distance 11.70 km Pace 3:54 /km Time 45m 33s
09:18 on Friday, 5 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Morning Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:39 /km Time 44m 52s
16:57 on Friday, 5 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Afternoon Run Distance 9.48 km Elev Gain 229 m Time 49m 54s
08:34 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Up Distance 3.99 km Pace 4:48 /km Time 19m 11s
09:29 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 4x10min Distance 13.74 km Pace 3:30 /km Time 48m 7s
16:46 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 San Juan County, USA Afternoon Run Distance 7.07 km Pace 4:36 /km Time 32m 29s
I think it's pretty common knowledge around here that total weekly volume is far more important than running a long run in each week.
True.
But also common knowledge :
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
Who the hell said you should do marathon paced running every day?
Yes, don't try to open any cans. The word "hobby" in your handle really is appropriate.
Serious question. I was at a running camp over 30 years ago and a coach told us that there was an exponential increase in building capillaries after a certain point (30 min.) but that there was a cutoff to how long you'd want to run due to wear and tear. Anyone ever heard anything like this?
John Kellogg said something like, "For most runners, a weekly long run of 1:55 to 2:05 is a good idea." It's in his essay in Kevin Beck's "Running Strong," with a title like "Supercharging Your Cardiovascular Engine." It certainly worked for me. For many years as a masters competitor, I was running, and racing well, on 40-45 mpw with a two-hour Sunday long run of 13-15 miles. Worked for me.
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
Who the hell said you should do marathon paced running every day?
Yes, don't try to open any cans. The word "hobby" in your handle really is appropriate.
The point is: a vast majority of hobby jogger does exactly that... unless they have experienced at least a few long runs
The exponential increase in building capillaries wasn't 30 minutes, it was one hour and 30 minutes. :)
source?
I was wrong about JK's essay in Beck's "Run Strong." It's in "The Updated Training Wisdom of John Kellogg," which is a PDF download. Here's some relevant stuff, copied and pasted:
Regular Long Runs of 2 hours +- a bit You should be running a substantial portion of many of your long runs at a pace which gives you a "full of run" feeling - strong and floating in the middle and well-trained but not strained by the end. You should also gradually pick up the pace during the last few miles of the run (but avoid STRUGGLING). This is what trains you to be able to use FT fibers at the correct time in a race (as the ST ones start to run low on fuels). It also provides the stimulus needed for your muscle fibers to store the right balance of fat and carbs. Start with picking up the pace on regular "easy" long runs at about 1-2 miles from the finish, then get to where you can comfortably do it from about 5-7 miles out. If you're already well-trained (i.e., you've worked your way up to regular high mileage) and you run at this high-end, "train don't strain" pace, you'll usually start to recruit your FT units after about 110-115 min. You'll also have to ventilate more as a result of a gradual increase in the CO2 content of the residual volume of air in your lungs. This will train your respiratory muscles, particularly if you're gradually increasing the speed over the last several minutes. You have to balance stimulation with adaptation or you'll go over the edge (remember, it shouldn't all be just a bunch of JOGGING on these things). Running longer than 125 min. seems to require too much recovery time to be effective as a WEEKLY long run. So I think Snell and Co. found the right distances for their long runs (20-22 miles) since they were reportedly running 5:40-6:00 per mile on most of these outings. Frank Shorter always advocating running 2 hrs. or 20 miles (whichever came first) and to go at a 269 "comfortably fast" pace. Sound advice there. Most of the above applies as much to track specialists as it does to roadies. A serious MARATHONER might run an overdistance run once or twice during a buildup and should certainly have two or three "dress rehearsals" in the form of moderately long runs (15-18 miles - maybe even 20 miles for an elite) at target pace, but that, as we say in Texas, is a whole 'nuther story. Improving VO2Max
There are Benefits from Several Types of Long Runs 285 Slow runs: These should be slow enough so as to give the feeling of "storing up energy" (Ernst van Aaken called this pace a "super-O2" pace). The only thing which might present any difficulty is the sheer time spent out there; otherwise, the effort should be completely conversational. Relaxation is paramount. Water and/or "road race" fluids should be taken every 20-30 minutes (depending on weather conditions) to stay hydrated and to practice taking race day fluids with ease while running. Primary benefits include fatiguing "slow twitch" muscle fibers to the point where "fast twitch" ones must be mobilized to continue the energy output, increasing capillarization, improving mitochondrial density, neurological and psychological relaxation (which promote efficient running mechanics), incrementally (and, hopefully, SAFELY) increasing muscle and joint integrity, balancing glycogen/fat metabolism, and simply becoming familiar with the feelings of running long. The last 1-2 miles of such a run should be SLIGHTLY picked up to reinforce correct muscle fiber recruitment and to gradually train the body to handle increased carbohydrate metabolism when somewhat fatigued. A slight pickup at the end of a long run may also provide some psychological benefits. It's probably a good idea during a pre-season to build these up in duration until they are just a little over two hours long (occasionally longer for runners who specialize at distances above 5,000m). While increasing the duration, the long run day should be treated as a HARD day (low to moderate mileage and little or no intensity the day before, low mileage and no intensity the day after). For those who will race 2- 4 times per month once the competitive season arrives, assuming the long runs have been at 2-ish hours a few times, the weekly long run can be reduced to about 90-95 minutes for maintenance (as Lydiard said, "Jealously guard your good condition ..."). At this point, the long run can come the day following a race (and probably the day before a moderately hard workout), since 90-ish minutes will no longer be any strain. Accelerated runs: These are more directed WORKOUTS of 90-120 minutes. Done in a manner most people would associate with Japanese/Kenyan style (although Americans also did them like this decades ago), they feature a very slow start (like the aforementioned super-easy runs), and aerobic equilibrium should be achieved long before any pace changes take place. This means breathing pattern, muscular recruitment, heart rate, perceived effort, and mechanical rhythm should all be stabilized (in simple terms, the pace should feel GOOD N EASY ). Once this equilibrium is attained, a very slight increase in pace can take place every 10-20 minutes until the final miles (sort of like a graded exercise test on a treadmill). The last few miles are normally run slightly faster than marathon race pace (fractionally slower than half marathon pace), with the ultimate 2-3 minutes REALLY MOVIN' (@ 10,000 pace). This may take lots of practice to get the correct feeling. The runner should feel "on top of" the pace (i.e., in control and NOT struggling) even through those last few minutes. It should only be a workout, not a race effort, and should be something that can be recovered from within 2-3 days. Again, fluids should be taken before, during, and after the run. These workouts provide more stimulus for aerobic development than the really slow ones do, but - IF the overall mileage is adequate - they should not be done on EVERY long run day; otherwise, recovery time will be too long to integrate other aspects of training into the overall scheme. Besides EXPIDITING all 286 the benefits mentioned for the slower long runs, these acceleration runs also improve running economy (the ability to use oxygen more efficiently and preserve stored fuels) and improve the ability to metabolize small amounts of lactate before a spike is reached and the "threshold" is crossed. Pace runs: These are usually reserved as "dress rehearsals" at target pace for an upcoming marathon race and can involve distances anywhere from 12 to 20 miles. Pre-race fluids/foods and in-race fluids are taken for practice (but no taper or special supercompensation scheme is undertaken during the days before), and the run is done as close to goal pace as possible for the early miles. The last few miles are gradually squeezed down to a faster pace. There should be 2-3 of these prior to the target race, spaced about 3 weeks apart, with the last one 3-4 weeks out from the race. These are very hard runs and will obviously require several days of easy running for full recovery.
The exponential increase in building capillaries wasn't 30 minutes, it was one hour and 30 minutes. :)
source?
Pretty sure on the real science of sport podcast a few months ago they were saying that this is a myth. There is no magic 90 minute time where your signalling pathways suddenly go crazy for capilliarisation. Intensity and total weekly volume were more strongly correlated than the length of a long run.
1. The primary benefit of the LR is to increase ability to mobilize fats and the stimulus to store glycogen. Glycogen storage is a factor at the 10k distance, but a minor one. I'm guessing that for someone like Jakob, the double threshold sessions do plenty to stimulate enough glycogen storage to get through a 10k.
2. The greatest stimulus to angiognesis is TIME spent at the optimal intensity. I remember reading this in an article by MacDougal and Sale, published in 1981, in the Journal of Applied Physiology. Based on a quick scan of the literature, it doesn't look like the scientific consensus has changed on this at all. What is the optimal intensity? Fast enough to stimulate local tissue hypoxia but not so fast that fatigue sets in and causes early cessation of exercise. This pace is around LT, or just below. This is why "double threshold" or Marius Bakken's predecessor, "Sub LT intervals in high volume 4 x per week", are so effective.
3. Years ago, I rember Diljeet telling me that "There is no reason to run further than 12 miles in training" (we've known eachother since her undergrad days and later I coached her brother right around the time she was running for Gags). She had just started coaching at CSU Stanislaus and I remember thinking, "this is why she's got really good middle distance runners, but hasn't had a ton of success with her 10k kids. Later on, I was skeptical about how well she'd do with BYU cross, but I guess my skepticism was undeserved. I don't know if she still believes that her athletes don't need to run more than 12 miles.....but they're only running 6k.
IMO, the LR value comes during the base building period (unless you're training for distances above 10k). The greater glycogen storage and fat mobilization that is stimulated by the LR makes the longer threshold and VO2 max systems less taxing overall and allow the body to "absorb" that training a lot more effectively. Are there other ways to get the same adaptations and have success in the shorter distances, sure. I think the Norwegian guys have been demonstrating that for a while now.
For shorter races like the 5K or 10K, long runs aren’t always the key—some runners do better with steady mileage, focused workouts, and quick recovery. Still, many coaches and athletes believe longer runs help build endurance, improve the body’s efficiency, and strengthen mental toughness, which can be useful for racing and overall fitness.
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
Who the hell said you should do marathon paced running every day?
Yes, don't try to open any cans. The word "hobby" in your handle really is appropriate.
1. The primary benefit of the LR is to increase ability to mobilize fats and the stimulus to store glycogen. Glycogen storage is a factor at the 10k distance, but a minor one. I'm guessing that for someone like Jakob, the double threshold sessions do plenty to stimulate enough glycogen storage to get through a 10k.
2. The greatest stimulus to angiognesis is TIME spent at the optimal intensity. I remember reading this in an article by MacDougal and Sale, published in 1981, in the Journal of Applied Physiology. Based on a quick scan of the literature, it doesn't look like the scientific consensus has changed on this at all. What is the optimal intensity? Fast enough to stimulate local tissue hypoxia but not so fast that fatigue sets in and causes early cessation of exercise. This pace is around LT, or just below. This is why "double threshold" or Marius Bakken's predecessor, "Sub LT intervals in high volume 4 x per week", are so effective.
3. Years ago, I rember Diljeet telling me that "There is no reason to run further than 12 miles in training" (we've known eachother since her undergrad days and later I coached her brother right around the time she was running for Gags). She had just started coaching at CSU Stanislaus and I remember thinking, "this is why she's got really good middle distance runners, but hasn't had a ton of success with her 10k kids. Later on, I was skeptical about how well she'd do with BYU cross, but I guess my skepticism was undeserved. I don't know if she still believes that her athletes don't need to run more than 12 miles.....but they're only running 6k.
IMO, the LR value comes during the base building period (unless you're training for distances above 10k). The greater glycogen storage and fat mobilization that is stimulated by the LR makes the longer threshold and VO2 max systems less taxing overall and allow the body to "absorb" that training a lot more effectively. Are there other ways to get the same adaptations and have success in the shorter distances, sure. I think the Norwegian guys have been demonstrating that for a while now.
Almgren is the Euro record holder in the HM is he doesn't do long runs.
I was wondering why this was getting heavily downvoted, as I agree with the sentiment of the title, but then I read the utter wank in the description and quickly realised why.
I mean, obviously long runs aren't essential for 5k and 10k training. The European record holder at 5k and the HM, Andreas Almgren, has said that he basically doesn't run any longer than 50 minutes continuously outside of his base phase.
And Jakob never runs longer than 80 minutes.
People have romanticised the long run to a certain extent, but outside of race-specific training, it's probably the run in which you're most likely to get yourself in trouble (from an overtraining/injury perspective).
Almgren doesn't do long runs during base either. There is no need for that if you're doing up to 210 km/week and 4 threshold sessions.
Maybe if he did long runs he would only need to run 180km/week😁
