As always you continue to live 60 years in the past.
That was before doping started to take over the sport. That is the biggest difference today.
Here’s a question for you. If Snell or Ryun were miraculously brought forward in time from the 60s to the present day and given access to modern day training methods, expert nutrition advice, super fast running tracks and super shoes you don’t think they would perform similarly to what we have seen from the likes of Myers and Ruthe? I would argue yes quite possibly. There is no reason to believe Ruthe is not 100% clean and just a super generational talent.
That was before doping started to take over the sport. That is the biggest difference today.
Here’s a question for you. If Snell or Ryun were miraculously brought forward in time from the 60s to the present day and given access to modern day training methods, expert nutrition advice, super fast running tracks and super shoes you don’t think they would perform similarly to what we have seen from the likes of Myers and Ruthe? I would argue yes quite possibly. There is no reason to believe Ruthe is not 100% clean and just a super generational talent.
Neither Snell nor Ryun had immediate ancestors who were world class or near world class distance runners. They may have had ancestors with potential to have been those things but that's just speculation. You cannot draw comparisons with Snell at ages 15 or 16 because he wasn't running then. Ryun had a coach who had mostly been a swim coach and was feeling his way with runners, which he did really well. Ruthe has a coach who was near world class himself. Ryun had high school runners for training partners. Ruthe has two world class endurance athletes for trianing partners. Give Ryun or Snell all that at 14 or 15 and who knows what would have happened?
The shoes don't make 3 seconds difference. That is pie in the sky speculation. If they did then El G could have run 3:23. There is nothing now that can be trusted at face value in this sport. There is every incentive to dope and it's easy to get away with it.
what do you think hes on? epo? drug cocktails? i know the sport is a dope fest, but even i find it hard to believe hes on something. Its possible you know things i dont,but it is very dangerous for a 16 year old to pump himself with ped's. Doping young doesnt normally make for a long career,and then theres the health problems later on.
According to antidoping experts (on an Al Jazeera investigation into doping) there are at least a hundred substances out there at any given time that can't yet be tested for. WADA also acknowledges doping is in schools.
As fast as one of the greatest Olympic champions in the history of the sport, from the same country, and on about half the training and in only his mid teens. I don't buy it any more than any of the other prodigies popping up like clockwork in the sport now.
The fake kiwi always negative…if the kid was one of your Crown Heights ilk you’d be fellating him in your posts.
That was before doping started to take over the sport. That is the biggest difference today.
Doping has been around for a long time. There have been serious questions raised about Kuts. We know Robin Tate was loaded. The Italians were doing it in the 80s. It's probably more sophisticated now than it was fifty plus years ago and that's a big difference. But I'm not sure it's the biggest difference. I think professionalism and professional rabbitting have made as much difference and now we have the tracks and the shoes.
You don't distinguish between doping as an aberration in the amateur era and the doping that has become an indispensable part of the sport in the professional era. It hasn't always been at today's levels.
That was before doping started to take over the sport. That is the biggest difference today.
Here’s a question for you. If Snell or Ryun were miraculously brought forward in time from the 60s to the present day and given access to modern day training methods, expert nutrition advice, super fast running tracks and super shoes you don’t think they would perform similarly to what we have seen from the likes of Myers and Ruthe? I would argue yes quite possibly. There is no reason to believe Ruthe is not 100% clean and just a super generational talent.
My short answer is, no. Snell and Ryun would have been better than they were in the sixties but nothing like Myers and Ruthe at their ages.
My question to you then is if athletes like Myers and Ruthe are clean, as you believe, then what would doped 16 year olds be running? 1:42? 3:29?
Here’s a question for you. If Snell or Ryun were miraculously brought forward in time from the 60s to the present day and given access to modern day training methods, expert nutrition advice, super fast running tracks and super shoes you don’t think they would perform similarly to what we have seen from the likes of Myers and Ruthe? I would argue yes quite possibly. There is no reason to believe Ruthe is not 100% clean and just a super generational talent.
Neither Snell nor Ryun had immediate ancestors who were world class or near world class distance runners. They may have had ancestors with potential to have been those things but that's just speculation. You cannot draw comparisons with Snell at ages 15 or 16 because he wasn't running then. Ryun had a coach who had mostly been a swim coach and was feeling his way with runners, which he did really well. Ruthe has a coach who was near world class himself. Ryun had high school runners for training partners. Ruthe has two world class endurance athletes for trianing partners. Give Ryun or Snell all that at 14 or 15 and who knows what would have happened?
Snell and Ryun were genetic outliers - gifted athletes. Myers and Ruthe are no more genetically gifted than they were. Snell and Ryun were also coached and trained to their physical peak. The peak training capacity of a 16 year old will not be that of a 20-25 year old. I have read here that Ruthe is not training to that level. His body would likely break down if he did.
Doping has been around for a long time. There have been serious questions raised about Kuts. We know Robin Tate was loaded. The Italians were doing it in the 80s. It's probably more sophisticated now than it was fifty plus years ago and that's a big difference. But I'm not sure it's the biggest difference. I think professionalism and professional rabbitting have made as much difference and now we have the tracks and the shoes.
You don't distinguish between doping as an aberration in the amateur era and the doping that has become an indispensable part of the sport in the professional era. It hasn't always been at today's levels.
What part of "probably more sophisticated now than it was fifty years ago" don't you understand? And I say "probably" because doping was an indispensable part of the sport in the Eastern Bloc countries as soon as they participated in the sport.
Neither Snell nor Ryun had immediate ancestors who were world class or near world class distance runners. They may have had ancestors with potential to have been those things but that's just speculation. You cannot draw comparisons with Snell at ages 15 or 16 because he wasn't running then. Ryun had a coach who had mostly been a swim coach and was feeling his way with runners, which he did really well. Ruthe has a coach who was near world class himself. Ryun had high school runners for training partners. Ruthe has two world class endurance athletes for trianing partners. Give Ryun or Snell all that at 14 or 15 and who knows what would have happened?
Snell and Ryun were genetic outliers - gifted athletes. Myers and Ruthe are no more genetically gifted than they were. Snell and Ryun were also coached and trained to their physical peak. The peak training capacity of a 16 year old will not be that of a 20-25 year old. I have read here that Ruthe is not training to that level. His body would likely break down if he did.
And your ability to know who has what sort of genes and who doesn't comes from where?
You don't distinguish between doping as an aberration in the amateur era and the doping that has become an indispensable part of the sport in the professional era. It hasn't always been at today's levels.
What part of "probably more sophisticated now than it was fifty years ago" don't you understand? And I say "probably" because doping was an indispensable part of the sport in the Eastern Bloc countries as soon as they participated in the sport.
Yours is a pointless observation. 60 years ago doping was neither as sophisticated as it is today or as widespread. You added nothing to what I said which is that doping sixty years ago is nothing like it is today.
Snell and Ryun were genetic outliers - gifted athletes. Myers and Ruthe are no more genetically gifted than they were. Snell and Ryun were also coached and trained to their physical peak. The peak training capacity of a 16 year old will not be that of a 20-25 year old. I have read here that Ruthe is not training to that level. His body would likely break down if he did.
And your ability to know who has what sort of genes and who doesn't comes from where?
By definition world record-holders and Olympic champions are gifted. But you are the one making the claim about outliers. So where does your expertise come from? Or you are just basing your claim on faster times - which can just as easily be attributed to pharmaceuticals.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
I suggest you educate yourself about doping in the sport today. It is known to be in schools.
good point - what's the hotline to get WADA onto the 10 year old girl running 18min at my local parkrun?
I wouldn't bother. WADA can't bust the doping that is at the very top of the sport. But you have no idea when and at what age athletes could be using drugs. Drugs are known to be used amongst athletes in schools. You're obviously ignorant of the fact that the E Bloc and the Chinese doped their prepubescent female gymnasts to suppress the onset of puberty. Drugs are inseparable from success in sports today. That's why they will be found anywhere and even amongst school-kids.
Maybe his future is in the 1500 but why not concentrate on the 800 for 2 to 3 years and move back up ?
I could see both Sam's chipping away at that national 800 record and add in james Preston to the mix .
Footnote ... the 1500 was solo but the 800 was not . He knew he had a race on his hands as he had never beaten Joe over 800 before. As it turned out joe tied up badly over the last 200 - 250 and the race was over but by no means was it solo.
You might want to watch the replay. There was not one point where Joe lead Sam. Sam lead from start to finish and always had several metres on Joe. No discredit to Joe however. He ran a great race and also dipped under the old record.
I have watched the replay and am probably more capable of looking at it objectively . By your definition Filbert Bayi soloed a 3.32 in 1974 and if that is your thinking then I'm guessing that we hopefully have different meanings of the word soloed . Front ran- yes. Soloed - No. Even better why not ask Sam ( who you obviously know) at what point he became unaware of Joe being able to run him down and thats the point of which he is running solo. FFS I'm a big fan of Sam and what he's achieving as the last time Athletics N.Z had anybody at his age doing so well was Jacko Gill and when they both are retired and mentioned in the same breath I'd suggest that sam has had a very successful career in probably (biased) the hardest sport to make it in .
Neither Snell nor Ryun had immediate ancestors who were world class or near world class distance runners. They may have had ancestors with potential to have been those things but that's just speculation. You cannot draw comparisons with Snell at ages 15 or 16 because he wasn't running then. Ryun had a coach who had mostly been a swim coach and was feeling his way with runners, which he did really well. Ruthe has a coach who was near world class himself. Ryun had high school runners for training partners. Ruthe has two world class endurance athletes for trianing partners. Give Ryun or Snell all that at 14 or 15 and who knows what would have happened?
Snell and Ryun were genetic outliers - gifted athletes. Myers and Ruthe are no more genetically gifted than they were. Snell and Ryun were also coached and trained to their physical peak. The peak training capacity of a 16 year old will not be that of a 20-25 year old. I have read here that Ruthe is not training to that level. His body would likely break down if he did.
You’re arguing that higher mileage is always going to produce the best result in an athlete which is not always the case. Once Ruthe is fully grown in his 20s you could place him on the same training program that Snell used and there’s no guarantee that you would get a better result than a well thought out lower mileage program tailored specifically for him.
And your ability to know who has what sort of genes and who doesn't comes from where?
By definition world record-holders and Olympic champions are gifted. But you are the one making the claim about outliers. So where does your expertise come from? Or you are just basing your claim on faster times - which can just as easily be attributed to pharmaceuticals.
By definition world record holders and Olympic champions are very successful. How they got that way is always speculative. The whole human genome has been mapped. No one found a running gene, an endurance gene, a basketball gene, a piano playing gene, or anything along those lines though genes that give physical characteristics which suggest success in various activities have been found.
But my original comment here, the first one you responded to, was not made to you and while it was fair game for a response from you I hoped there wouldn't be one. That's not because you are such a devastatingly good debater that I was afraid you'd prove me wrong. It's because I think you are a despicable person and I don't engage with despicable people if I can avoid it.
I don't know what you get from all of your carrying on. Maybe you think you need to let us all know about the presence and danger to the sport that come from PEDs but I doubt very many of us who hang around here need to be told about that. I neither know nor care why you do what you do but consistently accusing people of doing bad things or even inferring that they're doing bad things based on nothing other than your own beliefs is despicable and doing it about a 16 year old kid is infinitely worse.
So this is it, my last response to you. Enjoy your crusade.
what do you think hes on? epo? drug cocktails? i know the sport is a dope fest, but even i find it hard to believe hes on something. Its possible you know things i dont,but it is very dangerous for a 16 year old to pump himself with ped's. Doping young doesnt normally make for a long career,and then theres the health problems later on.
According to antidoping experts (on an Al Jazeera investigation into doping) there are at least a hundred substances out there at any given time that can't yet be tested for. WADA also acknowledges doping is in schools.
oh well,he'll probably keep improving,but peak at a fairly young age,like most teen phenoms,and ex teen phenoms do. 1.46 and 3.38 is super fast for a 16 year old.
Just wondering .. A. Were you in Hastings for NZ Secondary Schools Athletics Champs. and B. If you were there : Where in the stadium at Hastings were you based for Sam's races ?