Can Black Americans Run Well At The Marathon?

Khalid Kannouchi is an American from East Africa, no? :)

I am still waiting on the science backing this up too.

I can't believe I'm the first one to mention Ted Corbitt, the African-American "father of distance running"--not just a fine marathoner, but one of the all-time great ultramarathoners. Nuff said.

http://www.distancerunning.com/inductees/1998/ted.html

Painting in broad brush strokes, the majority of Black Americans and Canadians are of West-African descent, originally of slave-trade descent....

Mesomorphs, powerful, strong, fast, but not endurance capable, in general.....Sprinters,

jumpers, and with a lot of the mesomorph potential to be great at basketball, baseball, and others in the zone....

The vast majority of the World's best distance runners are of East African descent ---- almost a different species.....long, lean, small bone mass, usually adaptations based on centuries or millenia of adaptation to a low oxygen and high physical activity environment.....

The number of East Africans who have had world level success at events under 800 metres, and the number of West Africans who have had world level success at events over 400 metres, tells a striking tale about evolution and heredity....

Oscar Moore was a great distance runner and may well have done a good job at the marathon had he tried

marijuologist wrote:

This is really getting old. Not because the subject isn't worthy of discussion, but because you sophomores just keep going around in circles. Here's a radical thought: maybe none of you know why some groups perform better in certain athletic events. Maybe none of you have the answer! Maybe none of you have the magical ability to "decide" whether it's genetics or environment in the absence of scientific proof either way. Oh my god, could it be??

I cannot believe that I'm about to make a point that my opponents usually make:

Look at the world lists. Certain regions dominate. Why?

(My answer to this does not involve "genetic makeup / superiority" etc. Others will laugh at me. But the domination is there and should be investigated.)

I Am A Dreamer wrote:

No offense is intended by this question. It is inspired by another thread on racism, where someone points out that "blacks don't think about marathons", perhaps because they think they cannot succeed??. I accept cultural norms exist but I say these norms are racist based. It is untrue that white men cannot run 100m well, and also untrue that black americans cannot run the marathon well.

Any hard information would be appreciated. (For middle distance, what ethnic background did Sydney Maree or Mr Holman have?)

How many black Americans think marathon as they grow up, they don't, they think basketball, football, baseball...power, muscle, glory....

How many white Americans think marathon as they grow up?

If you do then well, um, ya white people are really weird.

the Kikuyu, the kamba, the Meru and kisii tribes in kenya are bantu, predominantly of heavy build just like the west african counterparts and yet they are starting to dominate the middle and long distance scene

Its entirely cultural. Most American people think about marathon runners and they think Forest Gump and white nerds.And its seen as a "white hobby" even though that Africans dominate the sport.

From my observation blacks place a high priority on identifying with common traits, likes, food, slang, that differentiate them from whites. Running 100 miles a week is what crazy white guys do. If there was big money in it then it would be a different story. There are plenty of African-Americans out there with the talent to run long distances. We had a black kid in my school who ran a 4:17 mile as a freshman and basically ran about 20 miles a week the rest of his hs days and took the off season (6 momths a year) completely off. He only got down to 4:15 and 1:54 when he graduated but he didn't seem to care much.

It would take a pretty independant person to put huge emphasis in an activity that none of his peers or family respect, nor are their any true role models to emulate that he could relate to.

The Wakamba (Cosmas Ndeti, Joe Nzau, etc) were long distance traders and are not of heavy build. The Kikuyu (John Ngugi) aren't either and are predominantly found in the Central Highlands and so are the Meru. It can be argued that the Kisii (Yobes Ondieki) of Western Kenya are not purely Bantu but more closely related to the Luo (heavy musculature - Nilotes).

Most of science is evidence based and basic data suggests that the East Africans have the genetic make-up favourable for long distance running - but not the West Africans (forefathers of African Americans)

there is this dude i met in Tuscon in 03, i thought he was a sprinter from nigeria but infact he is a 800m runner from kenya his name is Tony Kabara, if i can remember from Meru tribe, the guy was like 6'2-6'3, (am 6'1 and he was way taller than me) mascular and he is a 1.45 half miler

Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Tanzania, Eritria, Burundi etc

Distance runners come from these countries - ectomorph bodies, long elongated limbs, light bones

Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Ghana - sprinters, muscular, huge quads and glutes

East Africa vs West Africa, poor people on both coasts, different specific abilities abilities for running.

People of African descent in the following countries : USA, Jamaica, Barbados, Brasil will most likely trace their genes back to West Africa (where the slave ships went

), therefore they're most likely to have sprinting abilities.

ya thats Anthony kabara (wheels) i believe he his 6'3 175 pounds

http://www.mensracing.com/photos/mainedistance03/mdf49.jpg

Just wondering, has an afican american ( born and raised ) ever broken 9 min for the two mile in high school?

howie wrote:

The whole discussion on race and genetics in Africa is well discussed in a variety of books, including "Guns, Germs and Steel", which addresses a pretty wide range of topics related to the success of various civilizations over others.

Anyway, given that this East/West Africa debate comes up often, its interesting to note that there was a period in African history called the Bantu expansion, where Bantu speaking peoples of West Africa initially headed east and then South.

Bottom line is that 3000 years ago there were all sorts of people made of different genetic stuff, whereas today most black Africans and their descendants (Carribeans, African Americans) all share a common Bantu heritage. What has occurred since this migration throughout Africa, is that people living in certain areas have adapted to altitude, heat, and other factors related to their geography.

Close but not quite right. About 3,000 years ago the African populations were: negroes (Bantus) in the west, Niger river area; Nilo-Saharans in the Nile valley (Sudan etc.); Cushites in the Horn region (Mid-east origin); most of sub-Saharan Africa was occupied by San (bushmen) with pygmies in the Congo jungle. By about 2000 years ago the Nilo-Saharans had spread along the southern edge of the Sahara and the Cushites had occupied most of the Horn. At this point the Bantu expansion occurred, initially east to the Uganda/Kenya region and subsequently all of sub-Saharan Africa. About 700 years ago Nilo-Saharans moved into the East African Highlands (the Kalenjin among them, the main Kenyan distance running group). The Masai and Tutsi followed suit a few hundred years later. Thus slaves from either West or East Africa were Bantus. East African distance runners are either Nilo-Saharan or Cushite in origin whereas sprinters are of Bantu origin, South African distance runners are presumably of Bantu origin.

Andre Williams grew up in a bad neighborhood in Richmond in the late 80's. Didn't start running until his junior year in high school. All American in college and ran 13:28 for 5000m and mid 28 min. for 10k in the late 90's. I'm sure a very different childhood than fellow Enclavers Steve Holman and Ronnie Harris. He currently owns 2 running stores in the DC area. Is he an exception to the rule? I bet he can still run a decent marathon if he trained.

Yosnd wrote:

Just wondering, has an afican american ( born and raised ) ever broken 9 min for the two mile in high school?

8:49.4+ Rickey Pittman East Tech, Cleveland OH '80

8:55.6 Ron Johnson West, Torrance CA '70

8:57.6 Nick Ellis (Det. Cooley) MI '72

8:59.24 Dwight Stephens (Williams. Alexandria. (8:19.4-3k) VA '80

That's my count. I might have the wrong Ron Johnson on the list. Some of the oldtimers from California might weigh in?

Pittman also ran 30:12, not bad for a HS kid.

Looking at this objectively, which is sometimes difficult, the stunning difference in high school track around here is that even very good track programs at inner city schools suck at long distances and have for a very long time. The Ohio all-time lists for sprints and hurdles are dominated by "urbanites" (not all black), the 800 and field events are quite mixed, and the distances are almost completely suburban and rural kids. Example: the 3200/2-mile all-time top 25 list for Ohio boys has a grand total of three kids from inner-city schools and the girls' list has just one. The racial makeup (three white, one black) is what we see, but far more significant is where they come from (or don't). Even in the last ten years, the only big-city top distance guys in Ohio I can remember were both Somalian immigrants--and again, we notice the blackness, but the fact that they BOTH came from possibly the scariest place on earth might mean more.

Oh, and I can't believe no one has mentioned Ted Corbitt, one of the most important people in the history of road running.