Khalid Khannouchi's old mark of 2:05:38 that had stood for 20+ years if finally no more.
5th place.
After a super fast first 5k (14:23), he ran pretty even the rest of the way. 62:19 at the half.
Thoughts?
Nice run. Thank g-d we have a national record now below 2:05. He probably has a few years left to push the record down to under 2:04 and get on a few WMM podiums. He needs some of the latter to be in the conversation as the US marathon goat. Olympic gold is not happening, but if he runs 2:03 and can manage any global medal or several WMM medals, I think, given strength of competition now, we can then say he's greater than Shorter, Rodgers, Rupp or Hall, but not yet.
Wise Man, I think a wise move would be for Mantz to go back to the track this spring and sharpen up a little bit. He’s been hammering these long miles and he reached his goal and now I think it would be advise-able to pump the brakes a little bit before he gets injured. I would like to see him just take the appropriate time off training to recuperate from Chicago , and then compete at US XC and World XC coming up. After that take a couple months off completely to heal and rest and then get a late start in the summer and race some 3ks, 5ks, and a 10k in Europe. He should completely skips USAs and skip a spring marathon and any road racing. Try to sharpen up some turnover on the track and then prepare for another build up for a marathon in fall 2026.
Congrats to Conner on his new American record. 2:04:38
The bar has been raised for everyone.
Except for all the non Americans who are faster than him
Yeah, even as someone who is usually very positive and optimistic about American distance running, I'm finding it difficult to get excited about Mantz's performance today:
On one hand, it's nice to finally see an American run under 2:05 on a record-eligible course, and I'm happy for Mantz that he's made so much progress the past few years. He's gone from 2:08:16 at Chicago in 2022 to 2:04:43 today. That's fantastic improvement!
On the other hand, I can't overlook the fact that Mantz finished off the podium and was more than 2 minutes behind the winner. During the broadcast, they had separate screens/cams with one labeled "Men's pro race" showing the battle between Kiplimo and Korir. The other was labeled something like "US pro race" and showed Mantz and the group he was in. The message being sent from that display was our top American marathoner wasn't in the main race; he was running in a separate lower-tier race.
Re: the bar, I'd say it was highest for American men's marathoning overall from 1971-1982, when Americans were consistently the best in the world. During that 12-year span, an American was ranked #1 by Track & Field News 8 times. Frank Shorter won Olympic gold and silver, Bill Rodgers won four times each in Boston and NYC, and Alberto Salazar three-peated NYC and had the famous Duel in the Sun with fellow American Dick Beardsley in Boston. Beardsley also had his fair share of wins, including a tie for the win at the inaugural London Marathon.
Since then, the bar has been lowered. People can argue the competition is tougher in the professional era, and that's true. But even in the professional era, we've seen American marathon runners fare better against their competition than Mantz.
Khannouchi: set the world record and won 3 Majors as an American; ranked #1 in 2002
Meb: Olympic silver, Olympic 4th, won Boston, won NYC, and reached a Major podium 3 additional times
Rupp: Olympic bronze, won Chicago, and reached a Major podium 2 additional times
Hall: 3rd in Boston
Please don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Mantz's accomplishment. He's a good guy, and I know he works his butt off. He should be proud of what he's done.
I just want to acknowledge the great American marathon runners who've come before, and I want to see American marathoners get back to contending for wins at major races. Our distance runners are doing it on the track, now it'd be great to see someone do it on the roads too. Mantz' performance is a step in the right direction, but there's still a long way to go.
Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that KK wasn't just the best American, or the best in the world, he was arguably the best ever in his event as of 2003-2004. You might say he was the athlete that really brought marathoning into the modern era.
So it's perfectly reasonable to think that Mantz isn't literally "as good" as KK was, but that's ok. I don't root for him because he's the best in the world (he's not), but because he races frequently, competes hard, and represents the US well. We should be proud that he's the guy who's carrying the torch for us in the marathon, just like Rupp did before him, and Meb/Hall before that.
Except for all the non Americans who are faster than him
Yeah, even as someone who is usually very positive and optimistic about American distance running, I'm finding it difficult to get excited about Mantz's performance today:
On one hand, it's nice to finally see an American run under 2:05 on a record-eligible course, and I'm happy for Mantz that he's made so much progress the past few years. He's gone from 2:08:16 at Chicago in 2022 to 2:04:43 today. That's fantastic improvement!
On the other hand, I can't overlook the fact that Mantz finished off the podium and was more than 2 minutes behind the winner. During the broadcast, they had separate screens/cams with one labeled "Men's pro race" showing the battle between Kiplimo and Korir. The other was labeled something like "US pro race" and showed Mantz and the group he was in. The message being sent from that display was our top American marathoner wasn't in the main race; he was running in a separate lower-tier race.
Re: the bar, I'd say it was highest for American men's marathoning overall from 1971-1982, when Americans were consistently the best in the world. During that 12-year span, an American was ranked #1 by Track & Field News 8 times. Frank Shorter won Olympic gold and silver, Bill Rodgers won four times each in Boston and NYC, and Alberto Salazar three-peated NYC and had the famous Duel in the Sun with fellow American Dick Beardsley in Boston. Beardsley also had his fair share of wins, including a tie for the win at the inaugural London Marathon.
Since then, the bar has been lowered. People can argue the competition is tougher in the professional era, and that's true. But even in the professional era, we've seen American marathon runners fare better against their competition than Mantz.
Khannouchi: set the world record and won 3 Majors as an American; ranked #1 in 2002
Meb: Olympic silver, Olympic 4th, won Boston, won NYC, and reached a Major podium 3 additional times
Rupp: Olympic bronze, won Chicago, and reached a Major podium 2 additional times
Hall: 3rd in Boston
Please don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Mantz's accomplishment. He's a good guy, and I know he works his butt off. He should be proud of what he's done.
I just want to acknowledge the great American marathon runners who've come before, and I want to see American marathoners get back to contending for wins at major races. Our distance runners are doing it on the track, now it'd be great to see someone do it on the roads too. Mantz' performance is a step in the right direction, but there's still a long way to go.
Way to rain on the parade. I don’t see today as anything other than a good thing. Mantz broke an over twenty year American record and was only two minutes behind a phenom who may be the most talented long distance runner in the history of humanity. For God sakes, Kiplimo averages under 4:20 pace for 13.1 miles. Mantz’s performance was spectacular today and he should be commended for his hard work finally paying off. Being four minutes off of Kiptum’s WR is closer than five minutes off. Mantz literally closed the gap to the WR in one race and you are still complaining.
All of the current guys get the leg saving benefit of the new foams day to day to build fitness and stay uninjured, it's the new normal. Race day they get the amazing bounce. All of the current guys get the benefit of the new fueling knowledge and delivery day to day and during the race. For that reason times aren't nearly as interesting as some of us think they are. Too bad he didn't win the race to go along with the record, because it should really be about winning races.
The times that earlier marathoners were running on water and minimal shoes with zero energy return were likely more impressive, but who cares? The current generation of younger runners doesn't want to hear it. What are they supposed to do about it?
Nice job, Mantz. You are the best American marathoner in the worst American marathoning generation of my lifetime. Hopefully you will inspire others to join you in the front pack.
Nice run. Thank g-d we have a national record now below 2:05. He probably has a few years left to push the record down to under 2:04 and get on a few WMM podiums. He needs some of the latter to be in the conversation as the US marathon goat. Olympic gold is not happening, but if he runs 2:03 and can manage any global medal or several WMM medals, I think, given strength of competition now, we can then say he's greater than Shorter, Rodgers, Rupp or Hall, but not yet.
Wise Man, I think a wise move would be for Mantz to go back to the track this spring and sharpen up a little bit. He’s been hammering these long miles and he reached his goal and now I think it would be advise-able to pump the brakes a little bit before he gets injured. I would like to see him just take the appropriate time off training to recuperate from Chicago , and then compete at US XC and World XC coming up. After that take a couple months off completely to heal and rest and then get a late start in the summer and race some 3ks, 5ks, and a 10k in Europe. He should completely skips USAs and skip a spring marathon and any road racing. Try to sharpen up some turnover on the track and then prepare for another build up for a marathon in fall 2026.
I fully agree with you here. But he almost can’t afford not to go to both Boston and Chicago. Marathoners have such a short shelf life, and he gets paid very well at both Boston and Chicago just to show up. I’d be surprised if he ever ran a Valencia or took a spring off.
Even so, Mantz will very likely finish his career as a two-time Olympian and American record holder in the marathon. Not too shabby. He’s never breaking 13:00/27:00, so hard to see him spending much time on the track anymore.
Except for all the non Americans who are faster than him
Yeah, even as someone who is usually very positive and optimistic about American distance running, I'm finding it difficult to get excited about Mantz's performance today:
On one hand, it's nice to finally see an American run under 2:05 on a record-eligible course, and I'm happy for Mantz that he's made so much progress the past few years. He's gone from 2:08:16 at Chicago in 2022 to 2:04:43 today. That's fantastic improvement!
On the other hand, I can't overlook the fact that Mantz finished off the podium and was more than 2 minutes behind the winner. During the broadcast, they had separate screens/cams with one labeled "Men's pro race" showing the battle between Kiplimo and Korir. The other was labeled something like "US pro race" and showed Mantz and the group he was in. The message being sent from that display was our top American marathoner wasn't in the main race; he was running in a separate lower-tier race.
Re: the bar, I'd say it was highest for American men's marathoning overall from 1971-1982, when Americans were consistently the best in the world. During that 12-year span, an American was ranked #1 by Track & Field News 8 times. Frank Shorter won Olympic gold and silver, Bill Rodgers won four times each in Boston and NYC, and Alberto Salazar three-peated NYC and had the famous Duel in the Sun with fellow American Dick Beardsley in Boston. Beardsley also had his fair share of wins, including a tie for the win at the inaugural London Marathon.
Since then, the bar has been lowered. People can argue the competition is tougher in the professional era, and that's true. But even in the professional era, we've seen American marathon runners fare better against their competition than Mantz.
Khannouchi: set the world record and won 3 Majors as an American; ranked #1 in 2002
Meb: Olympic silver, Olympic 4th, won Boston, won NYC, and reached a Major podium 3 additional times
Rupp: Olympic bronze, won Chicago, and reached a Major podium 2 additional times
Hall: 3rd in Boston
Please don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Mantz's accomplishment. He's a good guy, and I know he works his butt off. He should be proud of what he's done.
I just want to acknowledge the great American marathon runners who've come before, and I want to see American marathoners get back to contending for wins at major races. Our distance runners are doing it on the track, now it'd be great to see someone do it on the roads too. Mantz' performance is a step in the right direction, but there's still a long way to go.
Wise Man, I think a wise move would be for Mantz to go back to the track this spring and sharpen up a little bit. He’s been hammering these long miles and he reached his goal and now I think it would be advise-able to pump the brakes a little bit before he gets injured. I would like to see him just take the appropriate time off training to recuperate from Chicago , and then compete at US XC and World XC coming up. After that take a couple months off completely to heal and rest and then get a late start in the summer and race some 3ks, 5ks, and a 10k in Europe. He should completely skips USAs and skip a spring marathon and any road racing. Try to sharpen up some turnover on the track and then prepare for another build up for a marathon in fall 2026.
I fully agree with you here. But he almost can’t afford not to go to both Boston and Chicago. Marathoners have such a short shelf life, and he gets paid very well at both Boston and Chicago just to show up. I’d be surprised if he ever ran a Valencia or took a spring off.
Even so, Mantz will very likely finish his career as a two-time Olympian and American record holder in the marathon. Not too shabby. He’s never breaking 13:00/27:00, so hard to see him spending much time on the track anymore.
But it will be fun to see him compete in world XC.
All of the current guys get the leg saving benefit of the new foams day to day to build fitness and stay uninjured, it's the new normal. Race day they get the amazing bounce. All of the current guys get the benefit of the new fueling knowledge and delivery day to day and during the race. For that reason times aren't nearly as interesting as some of us think they are. Too bad he didn't win the race to go along with the record, because it should really be about winning races.
The times that earlier marathoners were running on water and minimal shoes with zero energy return were likely more impressive, but who cares? The current generation of younger runners doesn't want to hear it. What are they supposed to do about it?
Nice job, Mantz. You are the best American marathoner in the worst American marathoning generation of my lifetime. Hopefully you will inspire others to join you in the front pack.
Wet blanket 2.0. I can see you in your old man new balance yelling at clouds in the sky.
All of the current guys get the leg saving benefit of the new foams day to day to build fitness and stay uninjured, it's the new normal. Race day they get the amazing bounce. All of the current guys get the benefit of the new fueling knowledge and delivery day to day and during the race. For that reason times aren't nearly as interesting as some of us think they are. Too bad he didn't win the race to go along with the record, because it should really be about winning races.
The times that earlier marathoners were running on water and minimal shoes with zero energy return were likely more impressive, but who cares? The current generation of younger runners doesn't want to hear it. What are they supposed to do about it?
Nice job, Mantz. You are the best American marathoner in the worst American marathoning generation of my lifetime. Hopefully you will inspire others to join you in the front pack.
Wet blanket 2.0. I can see you in your old man new balance yelling at clouds in the sky.
Way to rain on the parade. I don’t see today as anything other than a good thing. Mantz broke an over twenty year American record and was only two minutes behind a phenom who may be the most talented long distance runner in the history of humanity. For God sakes, Kiplimo averages under 4:20 pace for 13.1 miles. Mantz’s performance was spectacular today and he should be commended for his hard work finally paying off. Being four minutes off of Kiptum’s WR is closer than five minutes off. Mantz literally closed the gap to the WR in one race and you are still complaining.
Way to misread what I wrote. If you want to throw a parade, don’t let me stop you. There are a lot of positives from today worth celebrating, which I acknowledged. I just feel ambivalent about it, all things considered. My perspective is just as valid as yours.