Mr. George Beamish! Injured 80% of the time and still has 2 gold medals!
Gotta be one of the most insanely talented guys ever. I'm still waiting for him to race a fast 1500. He probably has the best kick in the world, and since he's training for the steeple, he must be aerobically strong (not to mention his 8:05 2 mile from last year). I think he'd be a legit threat in the 1500, especially in a year like this with it so wide open, and with all of the guys known for pushing the pace gone (except Tim C I guess but I think those days may be past him).
What don't you understand about it? Yes, it is weak. The indoor champs is not a fully participated championship. Why don't you look at the actual participation numbers at WIC? They are a curio. Something for Northern athletes to do in the dark, icy Winter cold.
I remember Beamish's debut two years ago. 8:42. Nothing special, especially considering he was a 3:51 miler. But he got his feet wet. It was good enough to elicit a "we'll see?" (my debut was 8:52 as a 4:08 miler at 18). Given Beamish's reputation as a vicious competitor, I had a hunch that he had potential ... and did he. His second steeplechase was the reveal. He took to the steeplechase like a rat take to cheese.* That was only two and a half years ago!
In college Beamish climbed the ladder one rung at a time. You could see his competitive nature showing through on each rung. This win is just the end of this progression.
I wasn't disputing your observation about an indoor title being "weak". I was asking if you would therefore apply that description to Ingebrigtsen's indoor title. Fair enough if you think that but it isn't a popular view here that his indoor title is weak. "Weak" is a dismissive term when it might just be said an indoor title doesn't have quite the same cachet as an outdoor title.
In respect of Beamish, he has shown an impressive capacity to win from behind against big name athletes.
You say "weak" is a dismissive term. I say weak is a descriptive term. It's all how you think about things.
I really don't care what is a popular view here. What's popular here is wrong at least 50 percent of the time.
When Ingebrigtsen wins a weak event it's not a reflection on him, it's a reflection on the lack of competition. That's simple. Why make anything of it?
Absolute monster, textbook George, I was screaming down the final 100. Has anyone ever been a 1500/steeple world champ?
Indoor WC is a weak title.
Kip Keino, was the original gangster
OC 1500 1968
OC steeplechase 1972.
Reminder that Beamish outkicked Cole Hocker and Hobbs Kessler, who went on to finish 1-5 in the Olympics that year. Indoor WC was absolutely not a weak title. Not that year (Nuguse and Kerr in the 3k), and especially not that race.
Also this isn’t a popular take, but I’m done pretending like indoor WC is a weak title. It’s just as strong as outdoor WCs, even if the fields are missing the guys who win outdoors (which, again, wasn’t the case for Beamish’s title). From now on, I count indoor medals as strongly as I count outdoor ones. You may think that’s a bad take, but there’s a simple reason why: The guys who win outdoors aren’t good enough to win indoors too. If they were, they would’ve raced it.
Do you think I’m wrong? Please, explain to me how. I think we can all agree Jakob is the best 1500m runner in the world when healthy. Jakob has never won indoor gold and outdoor gold in the same season. Even if you don't think he's the best 1500m runner, whoever you think is the best hasn't either. Kerr hasn't. Hocker hasn't. Even they aren’t good enough. Centro did it in 2016, not sure who else has.
What? Just because not all of the top guys show up in peak form, the title is weaker? With that logic, Geordie Beamish's 1500m title should count for more than whoever wins outdoors this year. In 2024 indoors, the 1500m had the eventual 1st and 5th placers at the Olympics, and the 3k had the eventual 2nd and 3rd placers. Compare that to this year’s outdoor final, which has a total of 1 of last year’s Olympic top 5. The top 4 fastest athletes last year also placed 1-4 outdoors, while 0 of the top 4 fastest athletes this year even made the final. Surely, if you think indoor titles matter less because the top guys don’t normally race, then you must think that Beamish’s 1500m indoor title is more impressive than whoever wins this year’s outdoor title, right? Because
I’m not gonna give one athlete more credit because they won WCs in September instead of March. They are equal titles, just on different surfaces. Indoors, outdoors, XC, and marathon gold are all equal titles on different surfaces.
And before disagreeing, have you ever considered that maybe athletes don’t prioritize indoors BECAUSE fans view it as lesser? The brojos always say “We don’t need more meets, we need more meets that matter”. If you consider an indoor title lesser than an outdoor title, you are part of the problem. YOU are making meets matter less by considering them lesser. If we held indoor world champions in as high regard as outdoor world champions, none of the top athletes would skip indoor worlds, because it would be like skipping outdoor worlds (unthinkable).
And now that road running WCs are a thing, we should hold that in the same regard as indoor and outdoor worlds. Reminder that Faith Kipyegon, after setting 1500m, mile, and 5k WRs and winning the 1500m/5k outdoors, was only 2nd at the road running championships (behind Hailu, Welteji doesn’t count bc she doped). Was she tired from a long season with so many amazing results (despite not running indoors)? I’m sure she was. It doesn’t change the fact that even she wasn’t good enough to win.
With all that said, I’ll add the caveat that I still think holding the Olympics in higher regard is ok, partially for the history, partially because it’s rarer, and partially because it’s so important culturally.
Thanks for the Kip Keino info though, I didn’t realize he won steeple gold too. 1500m gold over Jim Ryun then steeple gold is arguably as (if not more) impressive than 1500m gold over Cole Hocker then steeple gold.
You say "weak" is a dismissive term. I say weak is a descriptive term. It's all how you think about things.
I really don't care what is a popular view here. What's popular here is wrong at least 50 percent of the time.
When Ingebrigtsen wins a weak event it's not a reflection on him, it's a reflection on the lack of competition. That's simple. Why make anything of it?
Because you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
When you give athletes a pass for skipping indoors because you think outdoors matters more, you not only give athletes an excuse to skip the race, you give them a reason to skip the race, and you create a worse sport because of it.
Jakob is the change he wants to see in the world. He treats indoors as seriously as outdoors, but we don't get to see a peak Jakob race peak Hocker or Kerr because he's injured right now, and Hocker and Kerr got a pass from everyone to skip World Indoors because "outdoors matters more". If we considered indoors as important as outdoors, we would've gotten to see a 7:23i shape Hocker versus a 3:45i shape Jakob face off (probably at 1500 and 3k distances). But we don't, because we continue to perpetuate the idea that outdoors matters more.
It is all about how you think about things, and you need to change how you think about it if you ever want things to get better.
"The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event."
El B would appear to be an exception.
The reason everyone on this thread is urging Teare to move up is because he can’t make the 1500 or 5K team and because he’s a much more talented runner than any of the American steeplers.
This isn’t to throw shade at anyone, and I hope Malmo doesn’t overreact by trying to prove his/other steepler’s manhood, it’s just a well known fact.
What well known fact? You didn't prove anything. The steeplechase has always been open for anyone to try. Everyone is welcome with open arms. In fact we urge them to try. Even you could try. Why not? Excuses. excuses, excuses.
I remember when Marty Liquori told me he was going to try the steeplechase. I told him if he needed any tips just ask, I'll help. He never called.
all of this talk is really silly. not one of you who has denigrated the status of the indoor gold will ever have one. geordie beams is one of the most exciting runners and the world and yet should never be favored to win a time trialing barn burner. thats fine. he's not that guy. but dear god, the kiwi was blessed with one of the most inspiring kicks of all time and was granted with the perfect steeple race to put it on display and win the biggest race of the year. there is no indoor steeplechase. geordie beamish might be the best tactical indoor miler ever. i am taking him over the history of the worlds milers in an indoor 1500/mile. i don't know who else i can say that for maybe other than peak ingebrigsten at the 3k in a diamond league and even then I'd want to see el guerrouj and komen take a crack at him with pace lights.
You say "weak" is a dismissive term. I say weak is a descriptive term. It's all how you think about things.
I really don't care what is a popular view here. What's popular here is wrong at least 50 percent of the time.
When Ingebrigtsen wins a weak event it's not a reflection on him, it's a reflection on the lack of competition. That's simple. Why make anything of it?
Because you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
When you give athletes a pass for skipping indoors because you think outdoors matters more, you not only give athletes an excuse to skip the race, you give them a reason to skip the race, and you create a worse sport because of it.
Jakob is the change he wants to see in the world. He treats indoors as seriously as outdoors, but we don't get to see a peak Jakob race peak Hocker or Kerr because he's injured right now, and Hocker and Kerr got a pass from everyone to skip World Indoors because "outdoors matters more". If we considered indoors as important as outdoors, we would've gotten to see a 7:23i shape Hocker versus a 3:45i shape Jakob face off (probably at 1500 and 3k distances). But we don't, because we continue to perpetuate the idea that outdoors matters more.
It is all about how you think about things, and you need to change how you thinkabout it if you ever want things to get better.
What kind of bat-sheet crazy talk it this? How about this -- I'm going to put the burden of the world on you? But first, I think that YOU should sort things out with a mental health care professional. That's not my purview.
all of this talk is really silly. not one of you who has denigrated the status of the indoor gold will ever have one. geordie beams is one of the most exciting runners and the world and yet should never be favored to win a time trialing barn burner. thats fine. he's not that guy. but dear god, the kiwi was blessed with one of the most inspiring kicks of all time and was granted with the perfect steeple race to put it on display and win the biggest race of the year. there is no indoor steeplechase. geordie beamish might be the best tactical indoor miler ever. i am taking him over the history of the worlds milers in an indoor 1500/mile. i don't know who else i can say that for maybe other than peak ingebrigsten at the 3k in a diamond league and even then I'd want to see el guerrouj and komen take a crack at him with pace lights.
Great f$cking race George
honestly I think George would have done really well in the 1500 rounds this year
"The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event."
El B would appear to be an exception.
Jager wasn’t tiny either.
The steeplechase is obv a very brutal event and not at all easy, but to act like it is as deep as the flat events is an absurd activity.
For every Fam, Jager, Beamish, etc. (guys who can and would compete well in flat events) there are ten guys who became really good at that specific event and weren’t competitive in college XC or ever in flat events. Heck, one of them was leading the WC today with two laps to go, even.
The reason everyone on this thread is urging Teare to move up is because he can’t make the 1500 or 5K team and because he’s a much more talented runner than any of the American steeplers.
This isn’t to throw shade at anyone, and I hope Malmo doesn’t overreact by trying to prove his/other steepler’s manhood, it’s just a well known fact.
I think there are quite a few people who might debate the point that Teare is much more talented than any of the American steeplers. We can start with Kenneth Rooks and Olympic medals won by each of them.
Because you have to be the change you want to see in the world.
When you give athletes a pass for skipping indoors because you think outdoors matters more, you not only give athletes an excuse to skip the race, you give them a reason to skip the race, and you create a worse sport because of it.
Jakob is the change he wants to see in the world. He treats indoors as seriously as outdoors, but we don't get to see a peak Jakob race peak Hocker or Kerr because he's injured right now, and Hocker and Kerr got a pass from everyone to skip World Indoors because "outdoors matters more". If we considered indoors as important as outdoors, we would've gotten to see a 7:23i shape Hocker versus a 3:45i shape Jakob face off (probably at 1500 and 3k distances). But we don't, because we continue to perpetuate the idea that outdoors matters more.
It is all about how you think about things, and you need to change how you thinkabout it if you ever want things to get better.
What kind of bat-sheet crazy talk it this? How about this -- I'm going to put the burden of the world on you? But first, I think that YOU should sort things out with a mental health care professional. That's not my purview.
"You have to be the change you want to see in the world" is crazy talk? That's literally one of the most common sayings out there. I get that you're old, but I didn't think it was that new of a saying. Would you call me crazy and say I'm putting the burden of the world on you if I said you should pick up litter if you see it? Just because people litter doesn't mean you shouldn't pick up trash and throw it away.
You'll also notice that in my 3rd paragraph, I switch from saying "you" to "we", because it is something everyone has to do.
Not sure why you have to insult me and call me crazy for asking to you make the world a better place (the world would be a better place if we got to see Hocker and Jakob race indoors), but can't say I'm surprised that someone disagreeing with me has no argument besides "you're crazy and you should do what you're saying too" despite me quoting one of the most common phrases and saying that I'd do it too.
What kind of bat-sheet crazy talk it this? How about this -- I'm going to put the burden of the world on you? But first, I think that YOU should sort things out with a mental health care professional. That's not my purview.
"You have to be the change you want to see in the world" is crazy talk? That's literally one of the most common sayings out there. I get that you're old, but I didn't think it was that new of a saying. Would you call me crazy and say I'm putting the burden of the world on you if I said you should pick up litter if you see it? Just because people litter doesn't mean you shouldn't pick up trash and throw it away.
You'll also notice that in my 3rd paragraph, I switch from saying "you" to "we", because it is something everyone has to do.
Not sure why you have to insult me and call me crazy for asking to you make the world a better place (the world would be a better place if we got to see Hocker and Jakob race indoors), but can't say I'm surprised that someone disagreeing with me has no argument besides "you're crazy and you should do what you're saying too" despite me quoting one of the most common phrases and saying that I'd do it too.
Yes it's crazy talk. You solve the worlds problems on your time. Leave me out of your nonsense. Getting to watch Hocker and Ingebrigtsen race each other at Worlds Indoors, or any other race, ranks 0 on a 1-10 scale. I'm fine with the athletes choosing their own destiny. Mind your own business. Is that OK with you?
Always amazes me that the slow kickers are surprised when they get outkicked on a slow pace.
Did they think it'd be magically different this time?
El B. is not a slow kicker. He was obviously confident in his kick. He sat in the back until about 800 to go. His kick was good enough to blow away everyone else in that race, except his miscalculated how sloooow the race was and he did not account for the incredible kick of just one guy G. Beamish.
One question I saw nobody ask yet: given Beamish's incredible kick, why was he hanging so far back off the pack with a lap to go? Surely he should have wanted to be a bit closer. It's like he didn't dare believe until 300 out..
Agreed, that's a really cheap shot at a gold medallist. They'd never ask it of Jager or Rooks. A total lack of class from LRC, surprised it came from Jon who is usually better than that. Nice quick retort from Beamish though: "I got one last year"
With a bit of a cold stare, too. Haha. In fairness, I felt like JG didn't intend to insult, but was asking for clarification on Beamish's comment that his move to the steeple,"was all about the medals . . . This is why I moved up to the steeple."
This is 100% what I was trying to do. He specifically said he moved up to win medals so I wanted to clarify if that meant he thought he couldn't medal in the flat events.
Of course I remembered his world indoor gold (how could anyone forget it?). If he was in the 1500 final in Tokyo, I think he'd have a good shot at a medal in that as well. But he won World Indoors in 2024, after he took up the steeple. So it's fair to wonder if he thought a 1500/5k medal was possible when he switched in April 2023.
I realized when I asked it that the question could be interpreted as being a bit insensitive. Maybe there was a better way to phrase it. I meant no disrespect; I just genuinely wanted to know his full reasoning behind making the switch.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Why the steeplechase is the most badass event in track and field....
The Steeplechase: The etymology:
The name originated from fox hunting, which was popular among the country gentry for centuries. A fox is released into the fields, then chased by hounds and riders on horses, until the fox escapes, or reaches his gruesome demise.
The hunt itself was called "the chase". Got it?
One day, in 1752, to settle a bet, two horsemen in Ireland decided to simply race over the countryside point-to-point, from one town to the next, jumping over fences, hedgerows and creeks. They used church steeples for visual orientation, since they were the highest landmarks that could be seen from a distance as they galloped through fields, trees and undergrowth.
'Steeples. Got it?
By the 1790s organized multi-horse events were being conducted by the gentry, and this is the earliest known reference to the name "steeplechase" (1793). Steeple+chase = Steeplechase. Got it?
The steeplechase has remained with us to the present. The natural progression was to lay out a course in front of grandstands so that people could view the races in their entirety, and, of course, drink and wager money. Drinking, gambling and debauchery – not much has changed in the sporting world, has it?
One day in 1860, perhaps fueled by whimsical banter and beer at the local pub, some Chads at Oxford University decided it would be fun for humans to run the steeplechase. So they organized a cross country steeplechase.
By 1865 it became a track event, and has been included in the modern Olympics since 1900. If you search the archives you can find photographic images of those early races. In some places, we still run cross country races over hay bales to simulate those original cross country races at Oxford. Societal regression continued to this day, until the knuckleheads at the local pub decided it would be fun to run a mile and drink beer – the birth of the Beer Mile.
The term “steeplechase” in track and field is nothing more than an etymological vestige from the original lexeme. There are no “steeples” in the steeplechase. Neither horses nor humans have ever jumped over “steeples.”
In one of the great coincidences of all time, Chick Hislop of Weber State, who, as a coach specialized in coaching the steeplechase, shares the same surname as steeplechase horse-racing historian John Hislop. Things that make you go Hmmmm.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
The reason everyone on this thread is urging Teare to move up is because he can’t make the 1500 or 5K team and because he’s a much more talented runner than any of the American steeplers.
This isn’t to throw shade at anyone, and I hope Malmo doesn’t overreact by trying to prove his/other steepler’s manhood, it’s just a well known fact.
What well known fact? You didn't prove anything. The steeplechase has always been open for anyone to try. Everyone is welcome with open arms. In fact we urge them to try. Even you could try. Why not? Excuses. excuses, excuses.
I remember when Marty Liquori told me he was going to try the steeplechase. I told him if he needed any tips just ask, I'll help. He never called.
“Everyone is welcome with open arms.“
Yes but that’s exactly my point- almost every runner has no interest. Just like Michael Johnson, Jeremy Warner, Quincy Wilson and hundreds of others never tried the 400H.
Doesn't mean the hurdles are easy (quite the opposite), but they’re not the main attraction. Thus, the majority of competitors aren’t as fast as their flat counterparts.
With a bit of a cold stare, too. Haha. In fairness, I felt like JG didn't intend to insult, but was asking for clarification on Beamish's comment that his move to the steeple,"was all about the medals . . . This is why I moved up to the steeple."
This is 100% what I was trying to do. He specifically said he moved up to win medals so I wanted to clarify if that meant he thought he couldn't medal in the flat events.
Of course I remembered his world indoor gold (how could anyone forget it?). If he was in the 1500 final in Tokyo, I think he'd have a good shot at a medal in that as well. But he won World Indoors in 2024, after he took up the steeple. So it's fair to wonder if he thought a 1500/5k medal was possible when he switched in April 2023.
I realized when I asked it that the question could be interpreted as being a bit insensitive. Maybe there was a better way to phrase it. I meant no disrespect; I just genuinely wanted to know his full reasoning behind making the switch.
tbf it's insanely hard to get medals consistently in the 1500 these days. 2 3:43 and 3 3:27 won't be in the final this year. geordie was injured most of the year and chose an event at the center of his range (1500-5k) where the tactics seemed more likely to offer tactical variation (even if girma usually pushes honesty), when the upper echelon of the mens 1500 was running most diamond leagues at a level that he didn't feel like he could consistently race at(3:30s and below) with his somewhat persistent injuries.