Why do you trust WADA? On what grounds are they to believed?
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Roro Sila wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
With Welteji and Knighton we see that two world-class athletes have been busted on the eve of the championships. As I observed in her thread, it shows yet again that doping is at the top of the sport and it could be anyone now. But, regrettably, most will not be caught.
Who and how many athletes do they need to catch for you to find contentment?
it seems that even when the anti doping people work (i.e., catch people)
its never enough for you, so when or how will it be enough
So you're quite happy that most dopers aren't caught?
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Jonathan Gault wrote:
I have to think it was an intentional decision by CAS to hold this release until the day before Worlds begins.
If you recall, Knighton was provisionally suspended in the spring of 2024 after testing positive for epitrenbolone (a metabolite of trenbolone, the same steroid Jarrion Lawson tested positive for in 2018). USADA charged him with a doping violation but Knighton appealed and an arbiter ruled in favor of Knighton after he claimed he tested positive after consuming a contaminated oxtail.
But both World Athletics and WADA appealed that decision to CAS. The hearing was in June and CAS announced today that it ruled in favor of WADA and World Athletics and Knighton will have to serve a full four-year ban (minus the three months he already served in 2024).
Knighton was the Worlds bronze medalist in the 200 in 2022 and the silver medalist in 2023. He did not make this year's Worlds team.
CAS announcement here:
From the next Bolt to this. A tragedy. Yes, in the end he's responsible for his actions, but it's sad and tragic regardless. I take no pleasure when these things happen.
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US dopers wrote:
When are we going to start talking about the US as a high risk nation for doping? US sprinters are as bad as Kenyan distance runners, and its not talked about enough.
Let the ridiculous international circlejerk begin. No, US sprinters are not as bad as Kenyan distance runners, who have hundreds of people on the ban list, and it is hilarious to suggest otherwise.
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USADA asleep at the wheel wrote:
Once again USADA protection scheme being exposed.
USADA? Did you read the story?
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"anaerobic steroids", that's the new undetectable ped
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Is he now corrupt? wrote:
Tamperedsamples wrote:
It’s not just the American sprinters…. You’ve got some ho-hum middle distance runners making extraordinary gains in the last 16 months
I agree. Hoey in particular seems suspicious. It's not just the US middle distance guys, though. Look at the world all time 800 list and how many of those times have been set over the past 2 years. If I'm not mistaken it's about half of the top 20. That doesn't seem normal to me. I know about the legal advances with shoes, bicarb, and all of that but this seems beyond that.
And yet there are Brits, Aussies, etc...oh....and one in particular Norwegian who's running at least as fast as any of them and yet...crickets....
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alright man lol wrote:
US dopers wrote:
When are we going to start talking about the US as a high risk nation for doping? US sprinters are as bad as Kenyan distance runners, and its not talked about enough.
Let the ridiculous international circlejerk begin. No, US sprinters are not as bad as Kenyan distance runners, who have hundreds of people on the ban list, and it is hilarious to suggest otherwise.
not to say that I think US Sprinters are worse than Kenyan distance runners, but there are just so few spots in professional sprinting as opposed to distance track + roads. it would take INCREDIBLY long for 100 american sprinters, or even sprinters in general to get busted.
for all we know this could be an entirely different story if the top 200 guys in the NCAA 100m were getting tested regularly
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the pattern is unmistakable wrote:
Modern doping method revs up athletes under the NCAA's lax, no-midnight-surprises system, which gives free rein to overnight microdosing. You see all these sprinters reach elite level while in college, and then spend a few years hanging on afterwards, then fizzle out
There's no reason NCAA should be allowed to have its own separate system.
What does the NCAA have to do with Knighton?
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Roro Sila wrote:
Who and how many athletes do they need to catch for you to find contentment?
it seems that even when the anti doping people work (i.e., catch people)
its never enough for you, so when or how will it be enough
So you're quite happy that most dopers aren't caught?
So, you can't answer his question?
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Usada (United States Anti-Doping Agency) chief executive, Travis Tygart said "justice" had been served following Knighton's clearance.
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Respectfully, when he ran 19.49, I thought to myself that, based on physical appearances alone, he should NOT be running that fast, and surely could not be running that fast naturally. Again, just based on his build and appearance.
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Zzzzzzzz wrote:
Primate1 wrote:
Two points are consistently made on this board: 1) American male middle-distance and distance runners are finally competitive on the world stage, and 2) Kenya and Ethiopia have a big doping problem.
So either the busts in Kenya have eliminated competition / scared top African athletes to stop doping, thereby allowing Americans to catch-up, or . . .
It isn’t just the US. UK, Australia, Norway and the rest of Europe all had the same progression (or better) as US runners. Pretty much the only ones who haven’t taken a massive step forward are the Kenyans…
Is that true? Seems like they've taken a big step in the marathon, just not on the track. Maybe the top runners just moved to the road.
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Based on my criteria, another athlete to keep an extremely close eye on is Quincy Wilson. And I’ll leave it at that.
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Kitcairn wrote:
Zzzzzzzz wrote:
It isn’t just the US. UK, Australia, Norway and the rest of Europe all had the same progression (or better) as US runners. Pretty much the only ones who haven’t taken a massive step forward are the Kenyans…
Is that true? Seems like they've taken a big step in the marathon, just not on the track. Maybe the top runners just moved to the road.
They have pretty much been running the same 2:02-2:04 they have been ever since the supershoes came out. And we haven’t seen some 5x increase the way we have seen with European and American runners. Hell presuper shoe guys like geb, Mutai, and Kimetto are still right there.
to some extent it is just the US who hasn’t taken a big step forward in the marathon. We should have a lot more 2:05-2:07 guys. Some of that is too many people running NYC and Boston instead of Chicago, London, Berlin, Valencia. Some of it is lack of support to give all those 13:45/28:40 guys 5 years of support to see what they can do in the marathon….
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curious deci wrote:
USADA asleep at the wheel wrote:
Once again USADA protection scheme being exposed.
And yes, what an embarrassing decision for the protective USADA. Tygart must go!
I don't understand what people think USADA and Tygart did wrong with Knighton. USADA prosecuted the case in arbitration, making all the standard arguments they were supposed to, and it was the arbiters who found Knighton met his burden.
What more was USADA and Tygart supposed to do?
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Animals (Basel). 2022 Aug 18;12(16):2115.
"Anabolic Steroids in Fattening Food-Producing Animals—A Review"
Kristyna Skoupa, Kamil Stastny, Zbysek Sladek,"It is estimated that 80%–90% of cattle in fattening outside the EU are treated with at least one type of growth-promoting anabolic agent."
"TBA (trenbolone acetate) is licensed as a growth stimulant for cattle in several countries around the world, such as the United States, Australia and New Zealand, which are major meat exporters. However, this causes global problems, as meat from these countries often demonstrates a positive TBA above the MRL (10 micrograms/kg in liver and 2 micrograms/kg in muscle), even though the meat has been certified as hormone-free. In 2000, an extensive inspection of beef in supermarkets imported from Australia and the USA was carried out in Indonesia, and up to half of the samples contained trenbolone residues [94]."
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rekrunner wrote:
curious deci wrote:
And yes, what an embarrassing decision for the protective USADA. Tygart must go!
I don't understand what people think USADA and Tygart did wrong with Knighton. USADA prosecuted the case in arbitration, making all the standard arguments they were supposed to, and it was the arbiters who found Knighton met his burden.
What more was USADA and Tygart supposed to do?
"standard arguments", yes, as in pro forma trying, but not seriously.
What more? How often have you asked this question? For starters:
1) Ban Knighton provisionally and publicy (see AIU's policy) while investigating.
2) Ban Knighton for four years (see Armstrong + Salazar) after investigation.
3) If Knighton appeals, go with the full 3-person arbitration (see Armstrong + Salazar).
4) In the arbitration, fight tooth and nail. F. ex. cite lots of precedence cases that the exact amount matters, instead of letting the defense get away with claiming it does not:
Respondent emphasizes that the plain language of Article 10.5 of the Code does not require Respondent to prove that the amount of epitrenbolone in the contaminated oxtail precisely and mathematically correlates with the amount of trenbolone found in the March 26, 2024 sample to meet his burden of proving No Fault or Negligence. Rather, the Code only requires that Respondent prove (on a balance of probability) how epitrenbolone entered his system.
Case in point, from the CAS Media Release, the amount does matter:
After considering the scientific evidence, the CAS Panel determined that there is no proof that would support the conclusion that oxtail imported into the USA would be likely to contain trenbolone residues at the level required to have caused the Athlete’s Adverse Analytical Finding.
5) IF Knighton wins in arbitration, appeal. Do not state "justice" had been served.
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Do you guys believe his coach knew everything all along? Isn't this interesting to be investigated?
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The Nail wrote:
Do you guys believe his coach knew everything all along? Isn't this interesting to be investigated?
Good point. See also Parvej Khan, who tested positive during a race in India in 2024 while under coach Holloway since 2023.
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