what in the skillboost wrote:
Ben Weston, from 21 minute freshman to top 10 contender in the state. Now that's a jump!
20* not 21
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wisconsin xc week 53 wrote:
This is what how I gauge the current Wisconsin landscape. Grady Lenn is distinguished at the top. The second tier consists of runners that are going to be extremely tough to beat and some of the runners in tiers 3 and 4 have chances for future mobility into higher tiers.
At the moment, the only person who has a chance to compete with tier 1 is Ryan Keller. Whereas runners Eli North, Brendan Reardon, Will Pongonis and Logan Zeise can push into the second tier with great championship seasons. Pongonis is a clutch runner and has a rivalry with Cooper Erickson (2023 Track Sectional Drama). Meanwhile, Zeise looked poised at Port Washington and has a solid season under him since losing at the Leighton Betz.
When you get to Jay Tally and TJ Penneycook, these are primarily 800 guys but can compete well in cross country. They won't win the state meet but it won't be all that surprising if either hangs on to place well among the chase pack state.
There are proven runners like Reid Grotenhuis, who owns 4:05 and 9:05 bests on the track, lingering in the fourth tier because they've exchanged season wins-losses against those same people. But Grotenhuis is another runner that can quite easily make the jump into the second tier with great races down the stretch.
Runners such as Carter Kucko, Braden Clarke and Logan Korthals are enigmas. Easy to recognize they have ability but their results on race day can be all over the place. Their strongest races give them placement in these respective tiers. Kucko is the top returnee in D2.
Home school state track champion, Sam Collier, should train for and run NXN HL and Footlocker to see how well he fares. He did beat Logan Zeise at Jackson Park a couple of weeks ago.
Tier 1
Grady Lenn
Tier 2
Lucas Tanner
Ryan Keller
Cooper Erickson
Tier 3
Eli North
Ben Weston
Brendan Reardon
Will Pongonis
Jay Tally
Aaron Yarboro
Carter Kucko
Tier 4
Ethan Mattek
Reed Grotenhuis
Sam Collier
Logan Zeise
Birk Newman
Nolan Johnson
TJ Penneycook
Elijah Judd
Logan Korthals
Jacob Nuthals
Braden Clarke
Will Lisowski-Semb
Cade Wanie
Luke Eiden
Everyone in Tier 2 has a chance of catching Lenn. Remember when DeVries held on to Bosley for over two thirds of the 2018 race? I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens again, and who knows, one of those guys might just be having the race of their lives.
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Oconomowoc boys team won conference 8 times in a row. I wonder if they can 10-peat.
10 -
Big 8 Conference preview (grouped into tiers):
Verona
Madison West
Middleton
Janesville Craig
Madison LaFollette
Madison Memorial
Madison East
Sun Prairie East
Sun Prairie West
Janesville Parker00 -
wisconsin xc week 7 wrote:
Everyone in Tier 2 has a chance of catching Lenn. Remember when DeVries held on to Bosley for over two thirds of the 2018 race? I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens again, and who knows, one of those guys might just be having the race of their lives.
Bosley then proceeded to gap him by 21 seconds in the final 1.1. Nothing against DeVries, he ran a great race that year, but Bosley was in a league of his own.
A few of the guys could stick with Lenn for the first 2 miles if they really wanted to. It’s the last 1.1 where they are really gonna be hurting.
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This might not be the right place to ask this, however, my frustration has just boiled over.
I started working remotely with middle distance runners over COVID outside of my in-person training and consulting. I realize that may dox myself to some users here, that's okay. It has been very fruitful in a profitable sense and a times dropping sense. My current split of athletes is roughly 50/50 USA/World. I predominantly work with 800 and 1500m (1600m or mile) runners, with the occasional 3000/3200/steeple. My clients have to perform and receive testing for me to begin working for them, and if they don't have a coach, I write their workouts, and if they do, I work within the spine of the workouts their coach has given them to find areas we can address without adding risk. If there are chronically poor workouts given, I will ask to speak to the coach and if the coach doesn't relent, I refund the athlete.
In the spring of this year, I began working with my first two Wisconsin clients. One of the clients is very self-driven (and exceptionally good, especially for his age group and your state), and the other is, while still driven, much more "well, my parents want me to do it" and considerably more talented than driven. What I was completely blown away by was how their respective high school coaches were offended "their" athletes were seeking consultation from an outside source, with one going so far as to hold one of the athletes out of a spring track meet as punishment. Third time is the charm, and I recently added my third Wisconsin client whose parents told me they won't tell her school coaches about this because they do not allow their athletes to get outside help, and that most schools have a similar policy.
What is going on in your state? Your university D3 schools place reasonably high at your D3 Nationals, which is commendable, but why do high school coaches in your state behave this way? Is the rest of the world woefully ignorant of the training happening in Wisconsin? What is the "Wisconsin method" Jakob should be doing? Should we all endeavor to move to Wisconsin to learn from diamond in the rough coaches who simultaneously know everything but yet are so threatened they will punitively damage athletes and socially bully them because they are trying to get better? I've told every client I've ever worked with if they think they have found something better, they can show it to me and we will talk about it, but the arrogance of the coaches here is confounding. You will demand to be their only resource for their sport but not even know something as simple as their VO2 max or cadence, or care to find out?
26 -
Remote Distance Coach wrote:
This might not be the right place to ask this, however, my frustration has just boiled over.
I started working remotely with middle distance runners over COVID outside of my in-person training and consulting. I realize that may dox myself to some users here, that's okay. It has been very fruitful in a profitable sense and a times dropping sense. My current split of athletes is roughly 50/50 USA/World. I predominantly work with 800 and 1500m (1600m or mile) runners, with the occasional 3000/3200/steeple. My clients have to perform and receive testing for me to begin working for them, and if they don't have a coach, I write their workouts, and if they do, I work within the spine of the workouts their coach has given them to find areas we can address without adding risk. If there are chronically poor workouts given, I will ask to speak to the coach and if the coach doesn't relent, I refund the athlete.
In the spring of this year, I began working with my first two Wisconsin clients. One of the clients is very self-driven (and exceptionally good, especially for his age group and your state), and the other is, while still driven, much more "well, my parents want me to do it" and considerably more talented than driven. What I was completely blown away by was how their respective high school coaches were offended "their" athletes were seeking consultation from an outside source, with one going so far as to hold one of the athletes out of a spring track meet as punishment. Third time is the charm, and I recently added my third Wisconsin client whose parents told me they won't tell her school coaches about this because they do not allow their athletes to get outside help, and that most schools have a similar policy.
What is going on in your state? Your university D3 schools place reasonably high at your D3 Nationals, which is commendable, but why do high school coaches in your state behave this way? Is the rest of the world woefully ignorant of the training happening in Wisconsin? What is the "Wisconsin method" Jakob should be doing? Should we all endeavor to move to Wisconsin to learn from diamond in the rough coaches who simultaneously know everything but yet are so threatened they will punitively damage athletes and socially bully them because they are trying to get better? I've told every client I've ever worked with if they think they have found something better, they can show it to me and we will talk about it, but the arrogance of the coaches here is confounding. You will demand to be their only resource for their sport but not even know something as simple as their VO2 max or cadence, or care to find out?
Wisconsin High school XC coach here, pretty sure this is everywhere in all states. This isn't an isolated Wisconsin issue I can promise you this lol... My biggest questions: are you communicating in tandem with the respected coach? Is it a joint team effort to achieve the same goal, training philosophy, cultivating and maintaining the head coaches culture and environment they have created? No offense but the "online coach" space is flooded with morons so I understand the apprehension. Also to be noted there are an equal number of high school coaches who like you said don't know jack about what they are doing. It sounds like you have meaningful intentions and I think this is just an isolated issues.
30 -
Tinny 2 Shoes wrote:
Wisconsin High school XC coach here, pretty sure this is everywhere in all states. This isn't an isolated Wisconsin issue I can promise you this lol... My biggest questions: are you communicating in tandem with the respected coach? Is it a joint team effort to achieve the same goal, training philosophy, cultivating and maintaining the head coaches culture and environment they have created? No offense but the "online coach" space is flooded with morons so I understand the apprehension. Also to be noted there are an equal number of high school coaches who like you said don't know jack about what they are doing. It sounds like you have meaningful intentions and I think this is just an isolated issues.
The coach who made the athlete stand up in front of the team and told the team he thought he was too good for them would not answer my calls or text. The other coach I did get to talk to and he said they have a plan that works and any deviance risks blowing the whole thing up. I asked him his definition of "works" and the call did not last much longer.
You will get no argument from me about some online coaches just trying to grab money.
To your questions about cultivating the same environment, etc, I do not tell athletes to skip practice to do something else. My services are additive, not subtraction.
My best work with American high schoolers is when the coach is happy to learn their athlete has reached out to someone like me. Most of the time, reordering days is the best thing we can do!
03 -
Remote Distance Coach wrote:
This might not be the right place to ask this, however, my frustration has just boiled over.
I started working remotely with middle distance runners over COVID outside of my in-person training and consulting. I realize that may dox myself to some users here, that's okay. It has been very fruitful in a profitable sense and a times dropping sense. My current split of athletes is roughly 50/50 USA/World. I predominantly work with 800 and 1500m (1600m or mile) runners, with the occasional 3000/3200/steeple. My clients have to perform and receive testing for me to begin working for them, and if they don't have a coach, I write their workouts, and if they do, I work within the spine of the workouts their coach has given them to find areas we can address without adding risk. If there are chronically poor workouts given, I will ask to speak to the coach and if the coach doesn't relent, I refund the athlete.
In the spring of this year, I began working with my first two Wisconsin clients. One of the clients is very self-driven (and exceptionally good, especially for his age group and your state), and the other is, while still driven, much more "well, my parents want me to do it" and considerably more talented than driven. What I was completely blown away by was how their respective high school coaches were offended "their" athletes were seeking consultation from an outside source, with one going so far as to hold one of the athletes out of a spring track meet as punishment. Third time is the charm, and I recently added my third Wisconsin client whose parents told me they won't tell her school coaches about this because they do not allow their athletes to get outside help, and that most schools have a similar policy.
What is going on in your state? Your university D3 schools place reasonably high at your D3 Nationals, which is commendable, but why do high school coaches in your state behave this way? Is the rest of the world woefully ignorant of the training happening in Wisconsin? What is the "Wisconsin method" Jakob should be doing? Should we all endeavor to move to Wisconsin to learn from diamond in the rough coaches who simultaneously know everything but yet are so threatened they will punitively damage athletes and socially bully them because they are trying to get better? I've told every client I've ever worked with if they think they have found something better, they can show it to me and we will talk about it, but the arrogance of the coaches here is confounding. You will demand to be their only resource for their sport but not even know something as simple as their VO2 max or cadence, or care to find out?
Barrett Dahl, is that you? Should G-E-T and Rib Lake go back to being the Redmen?
20 -
Wisconsin high school coaches prize their time with their runners, because rules set by the WIAA dictate that coaches cannot have contact with their runners outside of the track or cross country season. Contrast this with places like Minnesota.
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wisconsin xc week 7 wrote:
Wisconsin high school coaches prize their time with their runners, because rules set by the WIAA dictate that coaches cannot have contact with their runners outside of the track or cross country season. Contrast this with places like Minnesota.
Thank you for that nugget. Interesting.
Something just seems broken in the dynamics. Maybe it's a small sample thing but unless these high school coaches are regularly turning out multiple athletes every class or two getting their college paid for, they should understand better coaching is available and is only helping to strengthen "their" program! I don't want to hear about 4x800s, I don't want to hear about "but the team won a championship". Did this athlete who could've run 14:50 only run 15:45? Specifically to this state, best I can tell is no one has been close to 1:49 in the 800m. Yeah it's cold but it isn't Antarctica! Bicarb might get y'all there, but then what, everyone is taking it now!
I see Roisin went to Stevens Points, and that their men's team is a juggernaut. If that coach wants to talk about "his" athletes, go for it. I know her training story isn't the most common, but we can say at minimum the coaches there didn't ruin her! Everyone else, please, don't bully your athletes, understand they only want to get better, it's their futures that matter and not your programs! "But it's impossible to cater to every kid" is why you should be happy that that kid who wants to be better is getting help where time isn't the constraint! Be an adult and help them (and me!) through the process! You can be an obstacle or a supporter! No athlete I've ever worked with blames the high school coach for not being world class, of course you're trying to help!!! but everyone who's had a coach who expects to be treated like that and is offended by the athlete looking for help will 1000000% resent them and has to spend too much time and energy on conflict avoidance rather then performance!!!
14 -
Former Wisconsin high schoolers:
Elijah Pabon, Manny Putz, Ryan Severson - set to run unattached in the Nuttycombe "B" race
Owen Bosley, Cael Grotenhuis - set to run in Nuttycombe
Spencer Alf - set to run in PreNats
Ethan Olds - 25:23 at Gans Creek
Joseph McKee, Joshua McKee - 23:25 and 24:01 at Paul Short Run (the McKee twins graduated in 2020.... yet they are only sophomores right now... wtf)
Wisconsin has zero in-state talent who are running in the Nuttycombe main race, and you know they're probably going to play possum with their top runners. Show some spine, Mick.30 -
The Wisconsin girl's team has done a far better job at developing its in-state talent. Shea Ruhly, Annika Cutforth, Nora Gremban, Kylie Finger, Zaira Malloy Salgado, to name a few... shame on you Mick.
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00
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Verona beat Madison West by 7 points
00 -
SPASH put 6 in the top 8
https://results.performancetiming.com/results.aspx?CId=16541&RId=871&EId=1
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Sbonferrr wrote:
SPASH put 6 in the top 8
They also swept the top 14 spots in the JV race
00 -
wisconsin xc week 7 wrote:
Wisconsin high school coaches prize their time with their runners, because rules set by the WIAA dictate that coaches cannot have contact with their runners outside of the track or cross country season. Contrast this with places like Minnesota.
Wisconsin Lutheran has always been an exception to this rule. They gain exceptions through:
1) The Wisco Mile (June)
2) Supervised July & August weekly runs w/ coach who swears to God he isnt coaching (even leaves clipboard in the car)
3) Winter Distance Running Club Clinics at Wisco Mile Arena (December-March)
4) The Winter Wisco Mile (March)
5) Wisco Bible anti-LGBTQ Conversion Camps
6) Un-taxed international student housing and scholarship programs
30 -
wisconsin xc week 7 wrote:
Big 8 Conference preview (grouped into tiers):
Verona
Madison West
MiddletonJanesville Craig
Madison LaFollette
Madison Memorial
Madison EastSun Prairie East
Sun Prairie West
Janesville ParkerBig Eight Championships at Sun Prairie
Per the sectional layout, Sectional 4 takes Verona, West and Middleton from the Big Eight and adds #4 team De Forest from the Badger.
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Cross_Country/2025/2025-CC-D1-Assignments.pdf
I dont think it's very fair to have four of the top ten teams bracketed in one sectional. This is going to be a a zero-room for error, complete blowout, almost like a state meet itself. The teams that get through might be physically exhausted by the state meet in comparison to other teams that can coast (ahem--cough--Stevens Point).
50 -
wisconsin xc week 53 wrote:
Tier 1
Grady Lenn
Tier 2
Lucas Tanner
Ryan Keller
Cooper Erickson
Tier 3
Eli North
Ben Weston
Brendan Reardon
Will Pongonis
Jay Tally
Aaron Yarboro
Carter Kucko
Tier 4
Ethan Mattek
Reed Grotenhuis
Sam Collier
Logan Zeise
Birk Newman
Nolan Johnson
TJ Penneycook
Elijah Judd
Logan Korthals
Jacob Nuthals
Braden Clarke
Will Lisowski-Semb
Cade Wanie
Luke Eiden
Reardon clocked 15:17 at GMC. North hit the wall getting upset by Parker Brooks. Overall, it appears Marquette with big races from #5-6 has what it takes to beat SPASH at state.
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