Could it just be that an "all of the above" approach (shoes, bi-carb, double threshold and supplements) has given Americans and Europeans enough confidence to reduce or eliminate that one or two percent advantage the East Africans have had since the 1970s. Two percent improvement of 13:00 5K is 15 seconds. The East Africans have had a confidence advantage that seem to be disappearing.
The East African dominance started at the ‘87 WCs when Rosa provided Kenya with a flotilla of athletes loaded on EPO. Things really took off at the ‘88 Games. It’s taken decades for other runners to start to catch up via improved training methods and slighly better testing.
I'm a collegiate coach in the U.S. and don't believe there's some sort of wide spread doping thing going on. If there is, then it's reached the HS level, right!? I mean, more HS kids are running much faster than a few used to in past years. I honestly feel like there are a number of reasons for what we're seeing. The first thing that comes to mind is Training. More HS and college coaches know what top level runners (like Jakob) are doing to run Fast, and they're implementing similar training w/ their kids. With a greater number of HS coaches around the country training their kids at a high level, you have a lot more young kids running fast. As these kids reach the NCAA system, then the NCAA also gets faster (trickle up system?). Sticking with the training theme.. there's NO doubt that more college coaches are implementing advanced training systems as well. So many teams are doing double workout days now. Just look at UNC for example. If you were to ask their coach (Milt) how his training now compares to what he was prescribing when he was at Stanford (when Fisher was there) I'm sure he'd tell you it's changed quite a bit. Look at what the Wake coach is doing w/ double T's weekly. I'm sure this has changed quite a bit since his earlier days of coaching. I've heard top level DI coaches also talk about what it's taking to be successful in today's NCAA (Basically pro's coming over from overseas) and that pushing the envelope w/ prescribing training that it's taking to be competitive in this new landscape. Of course this is also leading to what seems like an increase in injuries to top level runners, who are having to take more chances with their training to keep up. Spikes have also helped of course, but to just imply that more people are running faster now because of drugs is just a cop-out answer in my eyes... unless you think all these HS kids are on them as well.
Since no one has been able to describe what they claim are better training methods and HS athletes are also showing this stunning improvement and the drop in times happens to correlate with the “super shows”, then, there is only 1 conclusion. ITS THE SHOES, and factor in the “super tracks”
I really think it is the shoes plus better testing. If it is doping, I’m so tired of doped up East Africans going 10 deep all in the same Nike uniform I just don’t care.
It’s taken decades for training methods to finally allow some runners to catch up to all the doped Africans who for the most part still dope with impunity.
Why is it always something as simple as training methods when it comes to explaining why white guys are obliterating doped-up ( aka non-white) records.
Since no one has been able to describe what they claim are better training methods and HS athletes are also showing this stunning improvement and the drop in times happens to correlate with the “super shows”, then, there is only 1 conclusion. ITS THE SHOES, and factor in the “super tracks”
Yes. It is the shoes. They're good for 4-7 seconds/mile.
But knowledge through the Internet has also increased - 1) You know how how fast the competition is running 2) You can figure out pretty much how everyone is training.
With that being said, there's still only maybe 10% of high school coaches that care or give a d@mn so the untapped potential out there is still huge.
We should actually be grateful that Brosnan was the Young's and the Sahlman's coach. If they were in another school district we probably wouldn't know they exist.
The East African dominance started at the ‘87 WCs when Rosa provided Kenya with a flotilla of athletes loaded on EPO. Things really took off at the ‘88 Games. It’s taken decades for other runners to start to catch up via improved training methods and slighly better testing.
Salazar really got the Americans (and Farrah) up to speed by reaching out to Ferrari and Conte, the masters improved training methods.
The East African dominance started at the ‘87 WCs when Rosa provided Kenya with a flotilla of athletes loaded on EPO. Things really took off at the ‘88 Games. It’s taken decades for other runners to start to catch up via improved training methods and slighly better testing.
Please let us know what these improved training methods are?
I'm a collegiate coach in the U.S. and don't believe there's some sort of wide spread doping thing going on. If there is, then it's reached the HS level, right!? I mean, more HS kids are running much faster than a few used to in past years. I honestly feel like there are a number of reasons for what we're seeing. The first thing that comes to mind is Training. More HS and college coaches know what top level runners (like Jakob) are doing to run Fast, and they're implementing similar training w/ their kids. With a greater number of HS coaches around the country training their kids at a high level, you have a lot more young kids running fast. As these kids reach the NCAA system, then the NCAA also gets faster (trickle up system?). Sticking with the training theme.. there's NO doubt that more college coaches are implementing advanced training systems as well. So many teams are doing double workout days now. Just look at UNC for example. If you were to ask their coach (Milt) how his training now compares to what he was prescribing when he was at Stanford (when Fisher was there) I'm sure he'd tell you it's changed quite a bit. Look at what the Wake coach is doing w/ double T's weekly. I'm sure this has changed quite a bit since his earlier days of coaching. I've heard top level DI coaches also talk about what it's taking to be successful in today's NCAA (Basically pro's coming over from overseas) and that pushing the envelope w/ prescribing training that it's taking to be competitive in this new landscape. Of course this is also leading to what seems like an increase in injuries to top level runners, who are having to take more chances with their training to keep up. Spikes have also helped of course, but to just imply that more people are running faster now because of drugs is just a cop-out answer in my eyes... unless you think all these HS kids are on them as well.
It's not drugs so I agree.
It's a combo of things but also not somehow that training is new or different.
It's not like we were in the stone age before 2020 and no one knew how the best were training.
It’s taken decades for training methods to finally allow some runners to catch up to all the doped Africans who for the most part still dope with impunity.
So the squeaky clean Americans and Europeans can now compete and even beat the full throttle Africans because of training methods…good one bro!
Have you looked at the AIU's website recently? Now many of them are undoubtedly getting away with doping(Americans and Africans) but they can't go full throttle like when there was no EPO test.
Lactic testing was around in the 70s? Now I only started running seriously in the 80s so maybe it went away but I never saw or heard anything related to lactic testing back then. The first time I heard about it was Bakken's blog back in the early 2000s(I think).
I'm a collegiate coach in the U.S. and don't believe there's some sort of wide spread doping thing going on. If there is, then it's reached the HS level, right!? I mean, more HS kids are running much faster than a few used to in past years. I honestly feel like there are a number of reasons for what we're seeing. The first thing that comes to mind is Training. More HS and college coaches know what top level runners (like Jakob) are doing to run Fast, and they're implementing similar training w/ their kids. With a greater number of HS coaches around the country training their kids at a high level, you have a lot more young kids running fast. As these kids reach the NCAA system, then the NCAA also gets faster (trickle up system?). Sticking with the training theme.. there's NO doubt that more college coaches are implementing advanced training systems as well. So many teams are doing double workout days now. Just look at UNC for example. If you were to ask their coach (Milt) how his training now compares to what he was prescribing when he was at Stanford (when Fisher was there) I'm sure he'd tell you it's changed quite a bit. Look at what the Wake coach is doing w/ double T's weekly. I'm sure this has changed quite a bit since his earlier days of coaching. I've heard top level DI coaches also talk about what it's taking to be successful in today's NCAA (Basically pro's coming over from overseas) and that pushing the envelope w/ prescribing training that it's taking to be competitive in this new landscape. Of course this is also leading to what seems like an increase in injuries to top level runners, who are having to take more chances with their training to keep up. Spikes have also helped of course, but to just imply that more people are running faster now because of drugs is just a cop-out answer in my eyes... unless you think all these HS kids are on them as well.
It's not drugs so I agree.
It's a combo of things but also not somehow that training is new or different.
It's not like we were in the stone age before 2020 and no one knew how the best were training.
I listed two coaches (of many..myself included) who's training HAS changed since before 2020. So yes, training Has evolved.
It's a combo of things but also not somehow that training is new or different.
It's not like we were in the stone age before 2020 and no one knew how the best were training.
But have you seen how many teams train nowadays or especially 5-10 years ago. There is still a team in my city where they do 4 workouts and a race every week. The training is not new but as these older coaches begin to retire and coaches who have a better understanding of training and physiology come in that helps bring up the competitiveness of HS distance running.
I have a theory. The shoes make less efficient runners more efficient. The caveat might be that the shoes respond better to heavier runners than the typical feather weight African for middle distances. More force in, more force out. African's main advantage is their build...which very few western runners can replicate due to diet and genetics.
We don't see the same thing in the marathon since heat dissipation has a much bigger role and not just force on thr ground. Big dudes Will always be at a disadvantage there.
Hocker 3:27? Fisher 7:22? Nico 12:45? Is this a systematic program?
Todays 1245 is 1996s 1300. Bekeles 1237 in 2004 is like 1225 now
Agree.
Young is Bob Kennedy with shoes, a track, and wave lights that allowed for about one second faster time per lap over 5000 meters.
12:45 is amazing, but in that context is it really that groundbreaking for an American?
When Kennedy ran 12:58, if we asked whether an American could run one second per lap faster, about 29 years in the future, I think a lot of us would have said yes.