Too many people are not using there brains about this subject. Biological MEN should not be running with biological FEmales!
If you think about what Natalie Patterson said, she said, she said just that she doesn't like men like Nikki Hiltz running against her when the PRIZE is on the line! How is this going to age? Does anybody know?
She’s not a transgender female so there’s no hypocrisy. The rules are what matter and not her rational.
And you think so because you are so uninformed that you think that the entire trans population consist of people who physically transitioned in certain ways. You can have your own opinions but you cannot have your own facts.
What unfair advantage does she have over females? If she does have one, should WA do something about it?
Unless you expect her to retire, running every scheduled race is her only choice. Randomly scratching from a race because she felt like a guy that day, will cost her, her sponsor contract.
This had me thinking. I am someone who believes that it is unfair for trans women to compete against cis women. I am also someone for whom this issue is not something that keeps me up at night.
I wouldn't drop out just because there are trans women racing. At the same time, because this is the Boston marathon, aren't trans women taking away spots from cis women?
If this were another marathon I wouldn't care in the slightest.
I feel bad for a random unknown participant getting lit up by the running community on social media. Whether it's JK Rowling or Nikki, I don't like it when people with platforms do this to others.
On the other hand you have to remember that 80% of people agree that trans women have an unfair advantage in sports to cis women. Maybe don't push the many liberal folk who agree by saying stupid things like "men in women's category"? They are trans women. We don't have to call them men to acknowledge the lack of fairness.
I usually agree, but that “unknown participant” brought up Nikki first. The podcast person made it sound like Nikki resented USATF and World Athletics for not letting them take testosterone & grow a beard (while still getting to compete in the women’s field). Like 2 years ago or something, Nikki did say sometimes they “resents the sport” because the reality is they has the desire to do those things, but can’t yet. But Nikki doesn't actually think (nor say) World Athletics should let them take testosterone and race in the women’s field.
The women also said “(Nikki) was in the Olympics and represents the women’s field but is embarrassed to be a called a women, refuses to be called a she, and is resentful she can’t take testosterone, grow a beard, and still compete in the women’s field”. Then she said this will lead to the women’s field being left as: “men dressing up as women and women taking performance enhancing drugs.” Again, I’ve never heard Nikki advocate that women should be able to take testosterone and compete in the women’s field. I personally understand what the woman is trying to say, but it’s also very understandable Nikki would see this and be like “what the heck”. And imo, this removes the “random unknown participant” label.
That being said, I don’t think anyone in the social media comments watched more of the podcast or knows anything about this podcast person and I’m not sure the podcast woman really understands Nikki or people who identify as trans. So we’re still just left with both groups not understanding each other and the tension shall remain.
I think people say too much. IMO the only response should be “I think all people should participate in sport. Sports are awesome and for everyone. I think everyone is free to express themselves & gender identify how they please. Respectfully, why do you feel it’s NOT okay for all of us to compete according to biological sex while still expressing ourselves?” And then from their answer, you talk through that and go from there. Maybe they have a good point and you can have a legitimate discussion.
I think the people who are throwing themselves down mountains to run BQ times are taking up far more spots from legitimate qualifiers than trans women are…
Professional sports where money is involved should and does have biological considerations. But in amateur sports, it’s not that deep. Why do you care so much about less than a percentage of the people who participating???
I think there needs to be more nuance in this conversation instead of everything being so black and white. Nikki and other trans activists are up in arms about the notion that anyone would think trans women competing is unfair, they don't even want to have the conversation, calling it transphobic. But the fact of the matter is, sports were separated by sex for a reason, and trans women, while not being men, ARE biologically male.
On the other hand, so many people are such jerks about trans people living, breathing, existing. They go to great lengths to paint all trans women as deviants, mentally ill or "failed male athletes" as another poster put it. Can you all consider that trans women DO exist, and they don't all transition for some nefarious reason? Come on.
Everyone deserves opportunity, respect and dignity. But sometimes we have to navigate making sure people have equity in opportunity without trampling on others.
I think Nikki is right about the following:
Participants in the Boston marathon, like all major marathons are competing for themselves. They are there for the atmosphere, to get the most out of themselves and see where they measure up. When I finish 390/1112 out of all women in a major race, I'm not wondering how many are trans. I'm just looking at my placing and time, feeling a little proud, hoping to maybe improve and moving on.
But I would have cared more about who I was competing against when I was an NCAA athlete fighting for spots, for my team to make nationals or win conferences. Competing against runners with unfair advantages would have bothered me.
Could it be like what I said before? Increase spots available to women, to account for trans women, while cis women don't lose spots? Could it be to separate the category for trans women and have higher qualifying standards given their advantages? Can we compromise at all on this one?
Almost nobody in conversations about trans women in the female category of sports does this. Most conversations including this one contain people making sure they vote that they don’t mind if trans people go about their lives in every other way.
First 9 minutes is basically a discussion of the interviewee's running background.
8:49 discussion of Boston Marathon starts
25:50 discussion of Nikki Hiltz
31:09 discussion of another (unnamed) female marathoner who takes testosterone who has gone from about 3:30 to 2:40, competes as both female and non-binary in different races; mentions the same person again at 38:00
39:50 good graphic showing "girls places stolen by boys in various high school sports; track and field leads the way by far
First 9 minutes is basically a discussion of the interviewee's running background.
8:49 discussion of Boston Marathon starts
25:50 discussion of Nikki Hiltz
31:09 discussion of another (unnamed) female marathoner who takes testosterone who has gone from about 3:30 to 2:40, competes as both female and non-binary in different races; mentions the same person again at 38:00
39:50 good graphic showing "girls places stolen by boys in various high school sports; track and field leads the way by far
She is running Boston in a few hours, bib #2130.
But basically, mostly transphobia right wing BS. (I eventually looked at several parts.)
So the privileged princess Hiltz thinks us women outside elite track athletics run marathons to visit new places and make friends? What a load of nonsense! I do it to achieve as high a placing in the women's field as possible. When I was younger and sub-elite,that meant I occasionally had a chance of winning or placing in local races, now it means my age group.
I certainly don't race any distance "to make friends" - how patronising of Hiltz. And I don't look at the scenery, if I want to "visit new places and look at scenery" ,I go on vacation.
And I don't want people born as men to get allowed in my category. Sorry if finding third of tenth or whatever in an age group isn't important enough for you Hiltz, one day you will be an age grouper too if you are lucky. But I'm not racing to make up the numbers in my category so that people born as men get two categories to win the prizes in. Bad enough if they create a trans category and people born as men still end up with two categories, but keep them out of the women's category.
Alternative very Hiltz, if you are so gender fluid,why aren't you mixing it up and spending a year racing against the men?