I’m excited to tune into GST this weekend. But I expect the distance athletes to give a reasonably full effort during their races. It will be massively disappointing if we get full-fledged jogfests. The athletes are getting paid handsomely; they should give the fans full effort.
You are suggesting that a tactical race does not necessitate a reasonably full effort?
COrrect - that’s exactly what he’s suggesting, and he is right.
There are no championships/medals on the line. If we get 10 laps of jogging in the 5000m, yes, that would not be a reasonably full effort.
Would you watch a football game where the teams trade off QB kneels for the first three-and-a-half quarters? I know I wouldn’t. Let’s see some real effort.
This is such a ridiculous take that I think we need to call it out.
You say "there are no championship/medals on the line"...but there is cash. You're speaking as if none of the athlete's on the track have any incentive to place which just isn't true.
Your point about the kneeling also, obviously, doesn't make sense. If one team just kneels repeatedly, they'd lose. The other team plays offense and wins. I know this is obvious, but it's not how tactics work and hopefully you're bright enough to understand that.
If it goes out slow and everyone waits until the bell, you are handing the race to one of a few athletes. You probably will see some slow starts, but I do think you'll also see a lot of early moves. I'm excited to see athletes finally get on the line to race.
I truly don't understand this forums distain for racing over paced and rabbited time trials.
I think it’s a generational thing. Young people today are spoiled by technology, and most of them want to put forth minimal effort as a result. In a racing context, they don’t want to have to think about strategy or being aware at all times of what their opponents are doing. They don’t want to have to be prepared to quickly shift gears at any time in the race. They don’t want to have to fight for position or deal with someone interfering with their stride. They don’t want to worry about getting boxed in.
They just want to be able to tuck in behind someone along the rail, shut their mind off, run at a perfectly even undisturbed cadence, and be pulled along to a fast time aided by super shoes and pacing lights, then pat themselves on the back for what they accomplished. Soft!
This is such a ridiculous take that I think we need to call it out.
You say "there are no championship/medals on the line"...but there is cash. You're speaking as if none of the athlete's on the track have any incentive to place which just isn't true.
Your point about the kneeling also, obviously, doesn't make sense. If one team just kneels repeatedly, they'd lose. The other team plays offense and wins. I know this is obvious, but it's not how tactics work and hopefully you're bright enough to understand that.
If it goes out slow and everyone waits until the bell, you are handing the race to one of a few athletes. You probably will see some slow starts, but I do think you'll also see a lot of early moves. I'm excited to see athletes finally get on the line to race.
I truly don't understand this forums distain for racing over paced and rabbited time trials.
I think it’s a generational thing. Young people today are spoiled by technology, and most of them want to put forth minimal effort as a result. In a racing context, they don’t want to have to think about strategy or being aware at all times of what their opponents are doing. They don’t want to have to be prepared to quickly shift gears at any time in the race. They don’t want to have to fight for position or deal with someone interfering with their stride. They don’t want to worry about getting boxed in.
They just want to be able to tuck in behind someone along the rail, shut their mind off, run at a perfectly even undisturbed cadence, and be pulled along to a fast time aided by super shoes and pacing lights, then pat themselves on the back for what they accomplished. Soft!
That honestly doesn't sound too far off.
There seems to be a growing belief that all this sport is is running even splits in the a perfectly calibrated environment. Wave lights, super shoes, lactate testing, etc all seem to be a part of that.
You are suggesting that a tactical race does not necessitate a reasonably full effort?
There are no championships/medals on the line. If we get 10 laps of jogging in the 5000m, yes, that would not be a reasonably full effort.
Would you watch a football game where the teams trade off QB kneels for the first three-and-a-half quarters? I know I wouldn’t. Let’s see some real effort.
Anyone who has run at a high level understands that in every race that matters, full effort is exerted. Depending on the pacing of the race this effort might be distributed differently, but every elite, competitive athlete will be crossing the line at maximal effort (unless they are tactically poor racers).
disagree. All the 1500 guys have the speed to close in 51-52 and will be comfortable coming through 1100 in 2:42 while the 800 guys will already be deep.
disagree. All the 1500 guys have the speed to close in 51-52 and will be comfortable coming through 1100 in 2:42 while the 800 guys will already be deep.
Yes. I think Wanyonyi would be the only competitive 800 guy in a sub-3:34 race. Arop and Attaoui could factor if it’s slightly slower (3:35-3:38). Hoppel I can’t see being up there unless it’s a 3:40 type race.
I do see Arop improving as it goes on, but the first time out I think they can dust him.
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
I wouldn't mind do it elimination mile style especially since the races will likely not be too fast. Eliminate one runner per lap for the 1500, one runner every 1250m in the 5k, one runner every 750m in the 3k.
Actually love the elimination races. Put some gators in the steeplechase pit to make it interesting
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
Exactly. So-called “tactical” racing (in reality, as another poster pointed out, there are lots of race tactics one could race other than jogging) can be exciting when a championship, medal, or Olympic team spot is on the line. Not so much in “regular season” meets. Did anyone care about the DL 5000s when Mo Farah was constantly sitting and kicking to 13:00+ times? No. They are much more interesting now when the top runners are willing to go for records.
Given no rabbits and less than ideal weather, I’m not expecting Monaco-type times in the distance races. But it will not be interesting if the effort level is low until the very end of the race. If that is the case—and we see 13:20+ times in the 5k, for example—the runners will deserve to be booed by a crowd that rightly wants to see real effort.
You guys really enjoy watching regular-season jogfests? Want to see a 3:35 in the Monaco 1500m this year? It’s just not that compelling in the regular season—when cash is the only thing on the line.
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
Time trials were better when they were true tests of what people were capable of. Now they’re tests of what people are capable of while aided by pacing lights, super shoes, and bouncy tracks. The times they are run are pretty much meaningless because we can’t compare them to what guys ran before 2020.
The other problem is time trials have become the norm instead of something special. Every race looks the same. It’s repetitive and boring.
Thank goodness we finally have some variety back in track. There’s a time and a place for everything. Let Diamond League be the place for mindless time trials, and let Grand Slam Track be the place for real racing.
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
Time trials were better when they were true tests of what people were capable of. Now they’re tests of what people are capable of while aided by pacing lights, super shoes, and bouncy tracks. The times they are run are pretty much meaningless because we can’t compare them to what guys ran before 2020.
The other problem is time trials have become the norm instead of something special. Every race looks the same. It’s repetitive and boring.
Thank goodness we finally have some variety back in track. There’s a time and a place for everything. Let Diamond League be the place for mindless time trials, and let Grand Slam Track be the place for real racing.
Agree, variety is good.
Don’t agree that the time trials are mindless or that somehow they aren’t a test of what people are capable of.
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
It has its place, sure. I don't think time trials shouldn't exist.
I like sports though and I like competition. I watched the NXN XC replay before I watched any videos of Jakob racing against the wave lights (or any time trials at BU for the matter).
I actually think your questions of "How good is this runner really? What can they do?" is the main crux here. I consider being able to win races an essential part of that question. Times are a factor, sure, but my favorite runners are the guys who know how to win when the chips are down.
Ask any athlete in another sport: they'd rather have a title than an MVP.
I’m excited to tune into GST this weekend. But I expect the distance athletes to give a reasonably full effort during their races. It will be massively disappointing if we get full-fledged jogfests. The athletes are getting paid handsomely; they should give the fans full effort.
Bro they are running for way more money than normal. All the tools will be used
People bashing “snooze fest” single file running…do you not enjoy seeing what these guys are capable of doing?
I agree a race without rabbits can be interesting. But we all run primarily to see what we are capable of and to set PRs (those of us who aren’t elite). I think that seeing these freaks run insane times is every bit as cool. How good is this runner really? What can they do?
The absolute ability of these runners is important, not just if they can beat someone head to head in a one-off race.
I think GST will be interesting. But sadly for Kyle, for me and I assume many others, there will be more excitement for Jakobs next race, even if there is nobody else elite in it. Because he is likely to push his limits and attempt to do something amazing.
(Of course this is something GST knows, and why they want the true stars if they can get them)
Time trials were better when they were true tests of what people were capable of. Now they’re tests of what people are capable of while aided by pacing lights, super shoes, and bouncy tracks. The times they are run are pretty much meaningless because we can’t compare them to what guys ran before 2020.
The other problem is time trials have become the norm instead of something special. Every race looks the same. It’s repetitive and boring.
Thank goodness we finally have some variety back in track. There’s a time and a place for everything. Let Diamond League be the place for mindless time trials, and let Grand Slam Track be the place for real racing.
was elG and all those guys NOT running constant time trials during their period? It kind of feels like this has been the way of the circuit for a very long time.
I’m excited to tune into GST this weekend. But I expect the distance athletes to give a reasonably full effort during their races. It will be massively disappointing if we get full-fledged jogfests. The athletes are getting paid handsomely; they should give the fans full effort.
Maybe im alone in this sentiment. But, i absolutely hate the time trial era we are in now. I miss the old carnage of a jogfest/wind up of the distance races. Probably also why I think Centro is a genius and the absolute best Olympic Champion. The Masterclass it took to do what he did in Rio! Anyways, Im rooting for a 69sec first 400m. bring on the kickers!
3k and 5k on the same weekend with significant prize money. There will surely be tactics involved! We don’t need to see fast times to be entertained. It will be really fun to see how the distance athletes manage their effort across both races.