Disappointing is putting it mildly! For running fans it's extremely frustrating especially given last years champs with Hocker and Kerr showing up! Unless they are injured? It's very poor they didn't show up! It's not an Olympic year and world champs Tokyo are at the end of the season this year, but I imagine sponsors want them to compete at these events as well as fan and supporters from their respective countries!
I was surprised that the two stronger Americans did not show- Nuguse and Kessler. Par for the course regarding Kerr.
Typical US/UK rubbish for these guys to duck an opportunity for the best to race.
The rest of the world is there while they are at home.
Grand Slam is new, feels very American-focused, and is not ideal for a 1500/5000 guy.
No one will remember the "2025 Grand Slam season" five years from now, but Jakob will (most likely) have two World Indoor golds on his résumé.
There are 22 countries represented in the Grand Slam Track. Athletes are coming from farther than Norway to face the best competition. Unlike Jakob, they aren’t afraid.
Only an American could suggest that a novelty league in the US should be more important to athletes than the World Championships.
This lack of practice against stronger competition will cause him to lose once again at the 1500 champs.
I think you are missing one important nuance here.
The only way Ingebrigtsen wins a 1500m at a global championships is if he executes the race in the way that only he can, and the others can't. Obviously we all know what that is - we've watched him long enough dominate on the circuit running a certain way and struggle in championships races when it goes another way.
So really, "practice" for him is not about running against other guys. He doesn't need to be in GST races no matter who is in them, because 3.34-3.37 races (I'm just guessing what the Grand Slam races might be) are completely useless to him. If he is going to be win Tokyo it will be a question of if he can get it right (because he didn't in Eugene, Budapest and Paris) and that's a competition vs himself more than Hocker, Kerr, Nuguse.
His disappointments over the last 3 global champs have absolutely nothing to do with lack of practice vs stronger competition - I mean he's been out there the most of anyone in the last 4 years in the Diamond League when there was no Grand Slam and it didn't help him come championship final time did it? Your logic breaks down here sorry.
I somewhat disagree. I don’t believe him winning diamond leagues is very significant despite it being against his fastest rivals mainly due to the fact that it’s almost always done with a pacer, causing the race mimic a paced time trial rather than a championship style race.
As someone who hasn’t done well in unpaced races in the past championships, practicing against the best competition gives him data on what works and what doesn’t, which is something that he currently lacks.
like the trio who humiliated him in Paris 1500m last year?
Jacob made that 1500 an all time epic race.
This fellow ducks no one and runs ballsout.
And competes.
Now we ordinary humans can't run too many races, but if we could, we should, as world class competitors.
Nuguse and Hocker are also great to show up often. their no show here is seen as pragmatic, and basically a negative for the upcoming season.
Jacob on the other hand, these races he builds on versus other people burn out.
And regarding Jacob's lack of a kick, acceleration, well the world's best second tier runners were left in the dust in a slow race, with their best chance to show their speed.
I still have Hocker with the better kick, which he can't use if its run out of him. Kerr's kick is pretty good, but only on his very best day.
I somewhat disagree. I don’t believe him winning diamond leagues is very significant despite it being against his fastest rivals mainly due to the fact that it’s almost always done with a pacer, causing the race mimic a paced time trial rather than a championship style race.
As someone who hasn’t done well in unpaced races in the past championships, practicing against the best competition gives him data on what works and what doesn’t, which is something that he currently lacks.
But with respect to him - don't you think he might have worked this out by now?
In Eugene it was the 3rd lap of 56.2 to 1200m where he let the pressure drop - Wightman was able to recover and beat him.
In Budapest it was the 2nd lap to 800m of 58.16 that let Kerr basically enter the final 600m far too "recovered" - beaten there too.
In Paris a first lap of 54.82 leading, followed by a 56.5 then a 55.9 that cooked his strength in the final 150m and let the guy who was running last of those big 4 the entire way (Hocker) blow the field apart in the final 80.
These patterns aren't exactly difficult to piece together. Inside the final 1000m if he is leading and let's the pace slip to anything over 56 seconds, these other top guys get a massive break because in leading the race there is always an associated extra energy cost they don't have, and they get a psychological break too. His formula is simple - whenever he gets to the front that pace has to be 55.5 and he has to just grind the field into submission because he is the only guy with the threshold and endurance to handle that. What comes before that is basically irrelevant. They can amble through 500m in 72.5/73 seconds - but when he goes he can't give the field one stretch where the pace eases and they regather. He's never going to win an old school sit and kick race (2min at 800m, 51.X last lap sort of stuff - why bother "practicing" that?
So we can agree to disagree on whether Grand Slam Track racing would help that. I don't think it does. In fact I think it's actually a great advantage that he seems to be practicing this in races (continental and world championships btw) where those other 3 studs aren't running. Why give them a heads up on whats coming in Tokyo?
I somewhat disagree. I don’t believe him winning diamond leagues is very significant despite it being against his fastest rivals mainly due to the fact that it’s almost always done with a pacer, causing the race mimic a paced time trial rather than a championship style race.
As someone who hasn’t done well in unpaced races in the past championships, practicing against the best competition gives him data on what works and what doesn’t, which is something that he currently lacks.
Who are you talking about here? Not the one on the podium on every championship he has entered except one, since 2021?
I somewhat disagree. I don’t believe him winning diamond leagues is very significant despite it being against his fastest rivals mainly due to the fact that it’s almost always done with a pacer, causing the race mimic a paced time trial rather than a championship style race.
As someone who hasn’t done well in unpaced races in the past championships, practicing against the best competition gives him data on what works and what doesn’t, which is something that he currently lacks.
Who are you talking about here? Not the one on the podium on every championship he has entered except one, since 2021?
Jakob Ingebrigtsen didn't stop to talk for long after his 1500 prelim (he said he will talk longer after the 1500 and 3000 finals). Asked him whether he was disappointed his rivals from the Olympic 1500 in Paris weren't running World Indoors.
Who are you talking about here? Not the one on the podium on every championship he has entered except one, since 2021?
He's talking about the 1500, not the 5000.
Yeah, so do I. Jakob have won a gold medal in 1500 at every EC since 2018, a medal at every WC since 2022 and in one of two olympics since 2021. He have also won a gold in every european xc competition since 2016 (except 2020), gold in every european indoors since 2021, and won every diamond league final since 2022.
Yet people think he is particularly bad in championships.
it would have been nice to see better elite attendance
back in the day, i cannot remember top fields at the world champs on any kind of regular basis.
bolt? coe? ovett? cram? bekele etc.
that said, it isn't that big a deal to fly over for a one off, there needs to be more incentive, the athletes obviously don't see enough reward. sponsors can motivate with rewards, like a world champs medal, is one hundred thousand?, or prize money that pays the bills,
that would do it, cash to pay the bills.
once everybody shows up, then it becomes a competitive thing that people put on the calendar.
anyway, the improved attitude by athletes to show and compete against one another, we'll see plenty this summer,.. and also maybe stir up some momentum for the sport,
stadiums full, everybody would like that.
K. Bekele won a 3000m indoor gold back in the day. His younger brother Tariku also won an indoor 3000m and medaled in another. Lagat has also won indoor gold in at least the 3000m and placed; Mo Farah has participated too.
Geb has 3 indoors golds in the 3000m and 1 in the 1500m in 1999 in 3:33.77. He won the double in 1999.
Coe´s breakthrough race was an indoor gold in the 800m.
Grand Slam is new, feels very American-focused, and is not ideal for a 1500/5000 guy.
No one will remember the "2025 Grand Slam season" five years from now, but Jakob will (most likely) have two World Indoor golds on his résumé.
It's unrealistic to expect the top Americans to fly 30 hours to run in a race that happens in the middle of the night in their home country and is not shown live on TV.
World Champs should be in Europe, N. Africa, or N. America. How many medals is China even going to win??
It’s to win a world title. That matters no matter what time zone you are in. It should mean just as much to you whether it’s in Beijing, Baltimore or Brisbane.
Yet people think he is particularly bad in championships.
Well that's all relative right because there are a lot of outstanding 1500m runners that would be ecstatic with even his WC record (2 x silver). But the reality is this is a guy who has gone into each of the last 3 world finals as the fastest 1500m runner in the world (2022 he went with a 3.46.4 mile under him, 2023 he'd run 3.27.14 and last year of course 3.26.73) and not won.
And that is an anomaly because when you look back at the other multiple world title winning/generationally dominant 1500m runners in the last 30 years (and even though I hate to, I'll include Kiprop) - El G, Kiprop (ugh), and Morceli there is a correlation between their World Champ performances and the world leading time for that season and that is that they were the world leader EVERY season they won world titles (with the Olympics being something of it's own thing).
Also with Jakob, since 2021 he's run 22 outdoor 1500m/mile races across the DL and champ finals and he's only lost 5 of them. Eugene to Kerr in '24, Zurich to Nuguse in '24 and the other 3 were the Eugene final, Budapest final and Paris final. Unfortunately when a guy who barely ever loses in big races anyway, loses the majority of his races in championship finals it's not that he is "bad" per se - it's more that it's fair to say he has "underperformed" a little? Or not?
it would have been nice to see better elite attendance
back in the day, i cannot remember top fields at the world champs on any kind of regular basis.
bolt? coe? ovett? cram? bekele etc.
that said, it isn't that big a deal to fly over for a one off, there needs to be more incentive, the athletes obviously don't see enough reward. sponsors can motivate with rewards, like a world champs medal, is one hundred thousand?, or prize money that pays the bills,
that would do it, cash to pay the bills.
once everybody shows up, then it becomes a competitive thing that people put on the calendar.
anyway, the improved attitude by athletes to show and compete against one another, we'll see plenty this summer,.. and also maybe stir up some momentum for the sport,
stadiums full, everybody would like that.
K. Bekele won a 3000m indoor gold back in the day. His younger brother Tariku also won an indoor 3000m and medaled in another. Lagat has also won indoor gold in at least the 3000m and placed; Mo Farah has participated too.
Geb has 3 indoors golds in the 3000m and 1 in the 1500m in 1999 in 3:33.77. He won the double in 1999.
Coe´s breakthrough race was an indoor gold in the 800m.
So your memory could be better?!
Bekele had a long track career so rather than identifying the race as “back in the day” you could state the year and maybe his age as well.
I somewhat disagree. I don’t believe him winning diamond leagues is very significant despite it being against his fastest rivals mainly due to the fact that it’s almost always done with a pacer, causing the race mimic a paced time trial rather than a championship style race.
As someone who hasn’t done well in unpaced races in the past championships, practicing against the best competition gives him data on what works and what doesn’t, which is something that he currently lacks.
But with respect to him - don't you think he might have worked this out by now?
In Eugene it was the 3rd lap of 56.2 to 1200m where he let the pressure drop - Wightman was able to recover and beat him.
In Budapest it was the 2nd lap to 800m of 58.16 that let Kerr basically enter the final 600m far too "recovered" - beaten there too.
In Paris a first lap of 54.82 leading, followed by a 56.5 then a 55.9 that cooked his strength in the final 150m and let the guy who was running last of those big 4 the entire way (Hocker) blow the field apart in the final 80.
These patterns aren't exactly difficult to piece together. Inside the final 1000m if he is leading and let's the pace slip to anything over 56 seconds, these other top guys get a massive break because in leading the race there is always an associated extra energy cost they don't have, and they get a psychological break too. His formula is simple - whenever he gets to the front that pace has to be 55.5 and he has to just grind the field into submission because he is the only guy with the threshold and endurance to handle that. What comes before that is basically irrelevant. They can amble through 500m in 72.5/73 seconds - but when he goes he can't give the field one stretch where the pace eases and they regather. He's never going to win an old school sit and kick race (2min at 800m, 51.X last lap sort of stuff - why bother "practicing" that?
So we can agree to disagree on whether Grand Slam Track racing would help that. I don't think it does. In fact I think it's actually a great advantage that he seems to be practicing this in races (continental and world championships btw) where those other 3 studs aren't running. Why give them a heads up on whats coming in Tokyo?
None of these races, not this upcoming 1500 in Nanjing or GST are going to help prepare Jakob or simulate what lies ahead for him at the world championships. Does anybody think guys are going to be running 3:27 or 3:28 during a GST 1500? As SS points out, for Jakob to win a championship 1500 these days the way he races them requires almost a miraculous self pacing that is nearly impossible for him to achieve without actual pace makers or wavelight. If he overcooks it or undercooks it even a little, he is screwed and at the paces they are now running, this is very very hard to get right. Nothing that is going to happen this week or would happen if he did race GST is going to prepare him well for the perfect splits he needs, self paced, to win a championship 3:27 type race. Jakob might get it right this summer, but honestly, not because he practiced championship races against the likes of Houser or ran GST against his rivals, but in races that will not approach what is going to happen at worlds.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Typical US/UK rubbish for these guys to duck an opportunity for the best to race.
The rest of the world is there while they are at home.
LMAO! The rest of the world? Have you looked at the start lists? It’s a who’s who of B-list athletes. Most of the A-listers are not in China. That’s why Jakob went there. He knows he can win easily.
Come on, of course he was. The way the sport works even with GST’s money , Ostrava ponied up a sufficient appearance fee (or contract for multiple appearances) to make it worth his while to do that meet. He also doesn’t have to double or be in the US as long. The LA one is the only GST that made real sense for Jakob, given its closeness to Pre.