Even tho the two you specifically mentioned are getting chicked these days, someone at NYCM, Boston, and Chicago are still offering guys like them comp entries, free hotel and flights for some reason. That plus the prospect of American-only prize money is why they couldn't be bothered with ultras. Also, given the two you specifically mention, they'd get exposed quickly in ultras for lacking the psychological talent. Hope that answers your question.
Saying that 2:10 marathoners would be better at ultras than successful ultra runners with just some specific training is like saying that 43'' 400m runners should do a bit of cardio and easily run 50''+50'' in 800m for a 1'40'' WR.
Beyond the money or lack thereof there's also the time commitment. Former elites/sub-elites have committed usually somewhere up to 20 years to be just shy of world-elite.
They want to get on with their lives rather than train even more and travel all the time.
That is to say even if their bodies still hold up.
Droddy, Stinson, all those types. Even Centro now that he’s in retirement.
Theyre vastly more talented than David Roche and would only have to run like 70 miles per week, as Roche does.
For Droddy and Stinson and those types:
(1) they’re already living at altitude
(2) they’re more talented than most ultra runners
(3) yes there’s a learning curve, but it seems like it’d be easier for them to adjust to running 8 min pace all day than continue to try to run a sub 2:10 marathon, which isn’t going to happen
(4) they’re never going to qualify for the Olympics, but they could make A LOT of money running ultras
I ended up running marathons because I found that I did better competitively as race distances got longer. For that reason I sort of thought that when I became convinced I'd run as fast in the marathon as I was going to I'd move up to ultras and could maybe do even better there as I'd done at marathons.
It never happened. I took a few shots at them and learned that I really didn't have the patience for running for five to ten hours at a pop. This has lead me to think that the most important ability you need to be good at ultras is the ability to be on your feet and moving for a long time and not thinking about how long it will be until you're done. One of my sons, a passably decent marathoner, moved to the Rockies and started doing long, long mountain hikes. He really seemed to enjoy them and has since gotten into long trail races. I hated long, long, trail hikes so I can't imagine I'd like long, long, trail races. He, on the other hand, seems cut out for it..
Different people like different things. Being a good but not top notch marathon runner is one attribute that suggests potenial for being good at ultras but by itself doesn't mean everything.
Because they can't do it. Marathon runners are not more talented than ultra runners. They just have a different kind of talent. Running for 2+ hours fast is one thing and running for a day or two is a whole different thing.
Just last weekend a famed sub 2:20 Marathoner on this forum had a DNF at UMTB.
Give any 2:12 marathoner 6 months to learn how to fuel and deal with blisters etc and they will dominate ultras
In the past, I would've said this wasn't the case as marathoning is about how well you burn glycogen, and ultras are about how well you burn fat.
But with the current high carb fueling 120g+/hr revolution that may no longer be the case. If you can find a 2:12 marathoner who can well tolerate high carb intake on the go then he might well dominate.
Soon you’ll have D. Hunter, S. Parsons and the rest of the tmen crew, along with Roots dragging around Boulder in ragged flannel shirts and ratty hipster beards.
Beyond the money or lack thereof there's also the time commitment. Former elites/sub-elites have committed usually somewhere up to 20 years to be just shy of world-elite.
They want to get on with their lives rather than train even more and travel all the time.
That is to say even if their bodies still hold up.
train more? ultra runners train less. David Roche runs 70 miles per week
While a lot of top marathoners would likely make for good ultra runners, some might not be able to compete with the best in the world at the 100 mile distance. The most important part of athletic success for distances from the 100 to the marathon is choosing your parents well, and this is probably true for ultra distances as well, though we don't really know what these genetic determinants are.
'Speed' and/or V02 max do not neccesarily correlate to 100 mile performance amongst elites. We have plenty of examples of this. There are plenty of female trail runners who can put up a much faster time than Courtney in the marathon, but very few can come close to her in a 100 miler, even with years of training. This does not mean that faster athletes can't do well at ultras, they definitely can, but they might get beat by athletes that would be 10%+ slower than them in a marathon. Many coaches are looking at the concept of fatigue resistance here to help predict ultra performance. We also have some data that shows large variations in the amount of muscle damage incurred during a 100 miler, which could be one of the most important factors for ultra success.
is another factor that might be very important here
All that being said, these races will become a lot more competitive if/when more elite road and track athletes do enter the sport. It just might be a bit a crapshoot in terms of who actually succeeds at these longer events.
Well this is where recruitment would come into play. There are probably at least 12 very talented and frustrated marathoners and triathletes who are used to training hours per day with diminishing returns. Ultra would be a fresh start for them.
And imagine if centro as the lead recruiter by training for ultras himself.
Maybe he wouldn’t excel at it—maybe he doesn’t want to run ultras—but the point would be who could he convince to come on board
Imagine if centro or someone like that was paid $5 million for three year to be the face of ultra. If not centro, then a runner like who who has retired or even an athlete or celebrity who is interested in long distance running
this could be game changing for ultra marathons and could have a huge financial return for the ultra running community and for the states where ultra take place
The thing is, ultra running relies on non-elite athletes being able to win. Its competitiveness is tied to its lack of top-tier talent. If a bunch of sub-Olympic talents took over the sport, a lot of the sub-sub-Olympic talents would pick up their ball and do something else where they can win. Running to ultra running is like tennis to pickleball, or road cycling to gravel cycling.
A bit like Michaël Gras who ran 2:08 at Valencia last year and this year ran Sierre-Zinal where he ended up outside the top 200 and almost an hour behind Kilian.
Droddy, Stinson, all those types. Even Centro now that he’s in retirement.
Theyre vastly more talented than David Roche and would only have to run like 70 miles per week, as Roche does.
For Droddy and Stinson and those types:
(1) they’re already living at altitude
(2) they’re more talented than most ultra runners
(3) yes there’s a learning curve, but it seems like it’d be easier for them to adjust to running 8 min pace all day than continue to try to run a sub 2:10 marathon, which isn’t going to happen
(4) they’re never going to qualify for the Olympics, but they could make A LOT of money running ultras
Because they can't do it. Marathon runners are not more talented than ultra runners. They just have a different kind of talent. Running for 2+ hours fast is one thing and running for a day or two is a whole different thing.
Just last weekend a famed sub 2:20 Marathoner on this forum had a DNF at UMTB.
The guys at the top of marathoning are more talented than the guys at the top of ultra-running. There's far more depth and money in road marathons at the elite level than there is in ultra-marathoning.
I'm not saying that all of the guys mentioned above would be able to transition (it requires different physiological strengths and skills, that the OP is underestimating), but a 2:10 marathoner is more talented than just about every ultra-runner (maybe Jornet, Walmsley and Sorokin are exceptions).
Just as a 3:30 1,500m runner is more talented than a 13:30 5k guy, but the 3:30 1500m runner may not beat the 13:30 guy in a 5k race.
