I love all the mental gymnastics at play to explain the sudden drop-off, especially for the ever weak distance runners, did anyone seriously believe that a nobody like rooks was a world-class steeple runner, or that grant fisher, perennially 5th best was a top 3 runner globally? Both results today showed who they really are, especially rooks, i.e. they're all off the 'freedom sauce".
I’m not a doping expert, so help me understand the logic here. Are you suggesting that there is drug testing at the Diamond League meets but no testing at the Olympics, and therefore you believe Americans were able to dope in Paris but not in Lausanne and Silesia?
If so, are you also suggesting the benefits of doping only last for a week? Again, I’m not an expert, but that seems doubtful. I did find this:
"Improves 3-K time by 6%; effects last at least four weeks".
I'm assuming you at least have a brain that can surmise that the Olympics , track events, were about three weeks ago thus the EPO was timed for that specific duration and hence the sudden, though not surprising, drop-off. The case of rooks is especially prominent as he is with all due respect a nobody and his latest results say so loud and clear. Fisher had also struggled to keep up with the elite runners throughout most of his career and was able to in steal medals in two events then after the Olympics reverted to his usual place of struggling to compete with the worlds best without 'assistance', read between the lines.
My theory is that the great performances were 'assisted', "effects last at least four weeks" and are unlikely to be repeated with the usual cover story of 'they don't have to perform after major events'. Keep in mind that most of those top performer did not take part in any races outside the US prior to Paris 2024 and then showed up but afterwards seem to have reverted to their normal, non-assisted times.
More details, please. You named Grant Fisher. The Olympic 5,000 final was 15 days ago. When exactly do you think he was doping? When he ran 12:51 in February? 26:52 in March? 12:53 in May? Doubling at the U.S. Olympic Trials in June? 7:27 in July? When do you suppose he stopped?
I’m not a doping expert, so help me understand the logic here. Are you suggesting that there is drug testing at the Diamond League meets but no testing at the Olympics, and therefore you believe Americans were able to dope in Paris but not in Lausanne and Silesia?
If so, are you also suggesting the benefits of doping only last for a week? Again, I’m not an expert, but that seems doubtful. I did find this:
"Improves 3-K time by 6%; effects last at least four weeks".
I'm assuming you at least have a brain that can surmise that the Olympics , track events, were about three weeks ago thus the EPO was timed for that specific duration and hence the sudden, though not surprising, drop-off. The case of rooks is especially prominent as he is with all due respect a nobody and his latest results say so loud and clear. Fisher had also struggled to keep up with the elite runners throughout most of his career and was able to in steal medals in two events then after the Olympics reverted to his usual place of struggling to compete with the worlds best without 'assistance', read between the lines.
My theory is that the great performances were 'assisted', "effects last at least four weeks" and are unlikely to be repeated with the usual cover story of 'they don't have to perform after major events'. Keep in mind that most of those top performer did not take part in any races outside the US prior to Paris 2024 and then showed up but afterwards seem to have reverted to their normal, non-assisted times.
So the US men were given a pass on testing and were doped to the gills but the US women weren't? Got it.
americans dont care about diamond league. they peaked for the olympics and partied too hard after. i imagine appearance fees exist for runners after winning medals too so they show up to make money.
And if your name is Sydney McLaughlin it is the reason this site will never ever cheer for you.
Isn't it obvi that they don't care as much about the DL meets? They were focused on the olympics (and to a lesser extent the Olympic trials), they are now done mentally. It's okay really. Most of them did exceedingly well when it counted.
This is the right answer. At all levels of our sport it’s hard to compete past the emotional high of the season championship. Imagine winning the Super Bowl and then playing another regular season game.
I’m not a doping expert, so help me understand the logic here. Are you suggesting that there is drug testing at the Diamond League meets but no testing at the Olympics, and therefore you believe Americans were able to dope in Paris but not in Lausanne and Silesia?
If so, are you also suggesting the benefits of doping only last for a week? Again, I’m not an expert, but that seems doubtful. I did find this:
"Improves 3-K time by 6%; effects last at least four weeks".
I'm assuming you at least have a brain that can surmise that the Olympics , track events, were about three weeks ago thus the EPO was timed for that specific duration and hence the sudden, though not surprising, drop-off. The case of rooks is especially prominent as he is with all due respect a nobody and his latest results say so loud and clear. Fisher had also struggled to keep up with the elite runners throughout most of his career and was able to in steal medals in two events then after the Olympics reverted to his usual place of struggling to compete with the worlds best without 'assistance', read between the lines.
My theory is that the great performances were 'assisted', "effects last at least four weeks" and are unlikely to be repeated with the usual cover story of 'they don't have to perform after major events'. Keep in mind that most of those top performer did not take part in any races outside the US prior to Paris 2024 and then showed up but afterwards seem to have reverted to their normal, non-assisted times.
You are not a student of the sport if you are claiming that Rooks is a nobody as he has dominated the American steeplechase scene the last two seasons and anyone with half a brain has seen his fast finish, always sub 60 the last 400 over barriers and usually close to sub 1:30 for 600. I believe he was sub 2:00 at the trials for the last 800 and maybe sub 3:04 for the last 1200. Watch the US nationals race from 2013 where he falls in lap two, is gapped by the field and then reattaches to the pack and out kicks multiple Olympians to win his first national championship. The fact of the matter is in Paris they served the silver medal up on a platter to him when they started fast, let the pace lag and then allowed him to get anywhere near the lead with 400 to go. Although his pr was 8:15 going into the games, he was winning slow races with big kicks. Rooks is legit and he made a lot of really good people look silly that last lap. And at 24 he has at least two more Olympic cycles. You only have to wait four more years for the next games. Enjoy the wait.
"Improves 3-K time by 6%; effects last at least four weeks".
I'm assuming you at least have a brain that can surmise that the Olympics , track events, were about three weeks ago thus the EPO was timed for that specific duration and hence the sudden, though not surprising, drop-off. The case of rooks is especially prominent as he is with all due respect a nobody and his latest results say so loud and clear. Fisher had also struggled to keep up with the elite runners throughout most of his career and was able to in steal medals in two events then after the Olympics reverted to his usual place of struggling to compete with the worlds best without 'assistance', read between the lines.
My theory is that the great performances were 'assisted', "effects last at least four weeks" and are unlikely to be repeated with the usual cover story of 'they don't have to perform after major events'. Keep in mind that most of those top performer did not take part in any races outside the US prior to Paris 2024 and then showed up but afterwards seem to have reverted to their normal, non-assisted times.
You are not a student of the sport if you are claiming that Rooks is a nobody as he has dominated the American steeplechase scene the last two seasons and anyone with half a brain has seen his fast finish, always sub 60 the last 400 over barriers and usually close to sub 1:30 for 600. I believe he was sub 2:00 at the trials for the last 800 and maybe sub 3:04 for the last 1200. Watch the US nationals race from 2013 where he falls in lap two, is gapped by the field and then reattaches to the pack and out kicks multiple Olympians to win his first national championship. The fact of the matter is in Paris they served the silver medal up on a platter to him when they started fast, let the pace lag and then allowed him to get anywhere near the lead with 400 to go. Although his pr was 8:15 going into the games, he was winning slow races with big kicks. Rooks is legit and he made a lot of really good people look silly that last lap. And at 24 he has at least two more Olympic cycles. You only have to wait four more years for the next games. Enjoy the wait.
Exactly why he's a nobody, dominated the already, and always ever, weak domestic scene and was unknown globally. He finished damn near last in his most recent competition in Poland. There's no need to wait four years as Tokyo 2025 is roughly a year away though his most recent performance showed who he really is.
Yeah, it has to be said - the US track medallists haven't exactly set the world on fire post Olympics
100m Gold - Noah Lyles - ended his season Bronze - Fred Kerly - 1st at Silesia, but with only 1 other OG finalist in the field
Silver - Sha'carrie Richardson - MIA Bronze - Mellisa Jefferson - MIA
200m Silver - Kenny Bednarek - 3rd at Silesia Bronze - Noah Lyles - see above
Gold - Gabby Thomas - MIA Bronze - Brittany Brown - MIA
400m Gold - Quincy Hall - scratched from Lausanne
1500m Gold - Cole Hocker - a distant 2nd in Lausanne Bronze - Yared Nuguse - MIA
3000 SC Silver - Kenneth Rooks - a distant 16th in Silesia???????
5000m Bronze - Grant Fisher - a distant 15th (last) in the 3000m in Silesia
10000m Bronze - Grant Fisher - see above
100mH Gold - Masia Russel - 4th in Silesia
110mH Gold - Grant Holloway - 2nd in Lausanne, 1st in Silesia Silver - Daniel Roberts - 4th in Lausanne, 3rd in Silesia
400mH Gold - Rai Benjamin - MIA
Gold - Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone - MIA Silver - Anna Cockrell - 2nd in Silesia
Looking at the start lists for Rome DL - the following are due to appear
Quincy Hall (will he scratch again?) Masai Russel Brittany Brown Grant Fisher Anna Cockrell Fred Kerly
Given all the PB's & WL's they were producing at their trials & the Olympics - where has that form disappeared to? They've either been (missing in action) or turning out & not performing as well as they did.
Yeah - it could be argued that they were training to "peak" during that period - but when you see the likes of Jakob Ingebrittsen, Matthew Hudson-Smith, Femke Bol, Julien Alfred & Soufiane El Bakkali continuing to race & "win" - then it does kinda beg the question, why has their "peak" been so short lived?
You raise a very interesting question, Grasshopper. Some may not want the answer.
They had to peak twice, vs someone like Jakob who is peaking for Olympics and his typical DL domination. But he definitely holds his peak better than most.
Jakob basically raced himself in to shape this year following injury. He obviously did well in the 5k but I’d argue he’s probably peaking right now as he didn’t train all winter. He’ll be strong for the rest of the season as he’ll be fresher than those who have trained for many more months.
Injury is always the best way to get in the best possible shape.
Like Rojo likes to say about the Africans, poor coaching on the US side. It’s easy to peak for the A race. Try sustaining a level of fitness to compete at the A race but also maintaining the ability to keep racing as a professional in your professional circuit. Jakob can do that. Most Europeans can do that. Africans show up.
Isn't it obvi that they don't care as much about the DL meets? They were focused on the olympics (and to a lesser extent the Olympic trials), they are now done mentally. It's okay really. Most of them did exceedingly well when it counted.
This is the right answer. At all levels of our sport it’s hard to compete past the emotional high of the season championship. Imagine winning the Super Bowl and then playing another regular season game.
Snell set two world records not long after the "high" of a double gold in Tokyo. So according to your view he should have crashed after that triumph - like so many of the Americans are doing?
Everybody else is on the juice how if they are backing up their paris perfomances???
Americans on the other hand.... Rooks ran 8.06 at paris without pacers but couldnt keep up with the same pace with rabbits in the race and finished in 2nd last in 8.35
Fisher yesterday was last in the 3k with 7.49. That time is only 10 seconds away from his 3k split for the olympic 10k where he took bronze.
Just laughable really how y'all are acting dumb when it comes to using common sense. Blaming everyone else when its your athletes that are now perfoming suspiciously after world class perfomances just few weeks ago
Everyone but Jakob has fallen off - mainly because they aren't Jakob along with having a long season since they all did indoors - Fisher / Hocker / Yared / Hobbs... etc.
Jakob looks like he didn't even peak at the Olympics which is crazy. He might of been helped by having to hold back due to the injury.
Shut up already. Dopers have always been ahead of the testers. Microdosing EPO and other drugs to stay under the testing limits is standard practice. Had to laugh at another poster - "well timed peaks". Yeah, that's why all these people PR'd by massive amounts for the olympic final. It was so obvious
For a US athlete, to even make the Olympics you have to be good at the Trials. It's a stronger constraint than for many other countries with less depth or a different selection process. So Americans should be more likely to get in shape earlier and have the Olympics near the end of their peak.
Agree. I'd also add that the U.S.A.'s outstanding performance at the Olympics seemed to really validate this system. If the cost of a tough U.S. trials close to the Olympics is poor performance immediately after the Olympics, so be it.
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