I think he had a good (bigger)mileage base. Maybe he only averaged that "lower amount" for a certain number of weeks?...but in the past he most likely got in a lot of higher mileage (and there is also a chance he doesn't post 100% of all running training online to Strava). I saw a 2 hour Treadmill Run workout with like 6k-7k of vertical gain doing some high intensity hill reps....so that kind of workout is lower in mileage but it's a lot of time on feet and a high work output and HR spikes in Zone 3-4 (I think it was a 20 x 3-min Threshold on that one for example).
What I questioned about was why he stated (online earlier) that he was trained to have (for Leadville):
1."Sub 14:00 min 5km fitness at altitude" which he also "equated" to "sub 4-min Mile fitness"?
To me those simply just don't line up as something to even mention as the Leadville Record he broke was set by 2:19 + marathoner Matt Carpenter. Also, Rob Krar ran in the 15:50s at Leadville a week after getting top 10 in the Mountain Bike Race several years ago and I considered that "on par" with Carpenter's record already considering course changes. Krar was a low 3:40s guy in college for 1500m I believe...but by the time he was running Leadville he was over 40 years old and obviously way past his 1500m prime.
I get why velocity at Vo2max (5km potential) correlates very well with ultras (mainly because of Running Economy I'd say), but to state you're in "sub 4-min Mile shape" without dropping something like a sub 1:52 for 800m on the track just doesn't really make any sense - and it doesn't line up with evaluating 100-mile trail fitness imo. The Mile/1500m just has too much of an anaerobic and basic speed component to extrapolate on imo. He cited a 10-12 x 400m workout that he did in like 63-64 with a 1:30 rest...but I simply challenged that you can't extrapolate workouts like that to claim "sub-4min Mile fitness"....even with his Football " sprint speed" background. Same thing does with a "sub 14:00 for 5km at altitude"?....unless he dropped like a 6 x 1km workout in 2:45 on a 2-min rest in Boulder that I didn't see?
He also more recently posted that he took in over 500kcal/hour which is a really high amount of nutrition for ultra running. "130-140grams" of carbs per hour is what he stated (which is actually 520-560calories) i believe. I can't imagine how he could even carry that much between aid stations as the crewing at Leadville was quite limited and one can only carry so many gels/drink powders at one time. "Muling" by Pacers didn't start until after 60-miles or so either. Most top elites (for ultra running) tend to top out at around 400-420 kcal/hr (which is already really hard to stomach for a guy that size for hours on end imo). I could be wrong, but I feel like this has to be a bit of an exaggeration? (or that for one hour he hit the high of 560 he claimed?...but to hold that for over 15 +hours *on average* is a lot of nutrition product to pack and stomach? I'd advise most ultra runners to be looking at more like 250-400kcal/hour depending on body weight and relative intensity/finishing time goals.
Anyways, Congrats to Roche - he really nailed this one and it was a very impressive first 100-miler on a pretty hot day. He obviously did a lot of things right, knows how to train, and has a lot of talent and it was a lot of hard work and perseverance . I was glad to see that record finally go down.
Sage: You should listen to the SWAP podcast. David gives all the details you question. They have been talking for months how increasing carbs per hour during ultra running (like cyclists have been doing) will lead to faster times in the sport. They also share what products they use… As a fellow coach you should listen.. you might learn something that could benefit your clients.
I don't doubt that. Generally the more carbs the better! I'm more curious how he carried that amount of fuel during a race like Leadville. Like I said, 520-560kcal/hour (130-140grams of carbs per hour) is a ton of product to have to carry while running for hours on end solo....especially considering very limited crew access and the distance between aid stations at Leadville (not to mention the stations were stocked by Skratch products I believe)? So he was mainly using SiS products....
Being on a bike is a lot different from running. You don't have the vertical oscillation/bounce of running so generally it is "easier" to fuel and hydrate a lot more with less risk of GI distress. The weight of the bottle is on your bike frame as well (or tour riders get moving car hand-offs?). You can also pull higher relative power and HR values on a bike for longer due to more engagement of more muscle fibers. At 37-38min into this video he actually he claims he got up to 600kcal per hour....which again is a ton of product to be carrying and ingesting while running (considering he didn't have a mule for the first 60 + miles). I'd just be curious how all that was carried up and over Hope Pass? At 40-41min into this video he actually says "I was doing 40-40-30 every 20min"? And no water. So he's claiming now 110grams of carbs in 20-min?....followed by "some Skratch mixed with Precision tabs". I could be wrong, but what he said right there just doesn't add up or even make sense actually?
Nutrition aside, I was actually more interested in his claim to "sub 4-min Mile fitness". I looked up one repeat 12 x 400m workout he did and he actually started at only 66sec/400m and the rest wasn't just 1:20-1:30, but he actually had a longer rest in there between a few sets. imo that is not indicative of anything close to "Sub 4."
I have no doubt he could run a sub 4:20-4:15 mile given his talent, training, and football sprint speed background. But to claim "sub 4" just seemed kinda clickbaity to me and was not really relevant to a trail 100-mile ultramarathon because of the large anaerobic component involved. Like I said earlier, many "older" top ultra guys (Krar, King, Hawks, Daniels, Walmsley) etc for sure had sub 4:10 Mile speed/PRs in college....but really what should matter more is your 5km PR and marathon PR as those are at least 98%+ Aerobic Based events and deal with more specific Running Economy like ultramarathons.
As far as PEDs go....well he has had at least one athlete trip a positive for a doping infraction technically [he does mention doping in 37min into this video] . Given the number of athletes he's probably coaching I certainly would not "bet" that they are 100% clean if I were him. And unlike what he said I certainly think a lot of performance boosts we've seen in cycling and running are due to new PEDs (and not just nutrition). I think shoe/spike technology superfoam and carbon designs are certainly a big proven boost for sure as well. For cycling I don't know...but that sport has always been ripe for a lot of doping. I don't think his Leadville performance is suspicious by any means as he is a very talented runner, and trains hard and smart and has a lot of really good gear/support/resources. It's not like he went out and ran 3:15 at the Pikes Peak Marathon and beat THAT Carpenter record (if anyone ever did that I'd be a lot more suspicious!).
I see how he meant to (probably) actually say: "40-30-30" [gram servings].....and doing *one* of those every 20-min. So that would be 110grams of carbs (440 calories) in an hour. Then he also had "some Skratch and electrolyte tabs". According to the Leadville 100 aid station info, they had Skratch labs hydration and that full single serving size (*if mixed at full strength*) would be another 19grams/drink serving. So now we're up to 129grams of carbs/hour (516 calories tops). I'm still not seeing how this is getting above the 560-600kcal/hour he claimed getting up to? It seems like he probably has exaggerated a little possibly. In the heat of the moment racing it's hard to remember or track exactly what you are pulling from every aid station (and large batches of drink mix product are often diluted by the aid stations).
No doubt Sis products (isotonic) allow for better ingestion and we can push more carbs faster with less GI distress though.
I see how he meant to (probably) actually say: "40-30-30" [gram servings].....and doing *one* of those every 20-min. So that would be 110grams of carbs (440 calories) in an hour. Then he also had "some Skratch and electrolyte tabs". According to the Leadville 100 aid station info, they had Skratch labs hydration and that full single serving size (*if mixed at full strength*) would be another 19grams/drink serving. So now we're up to 129grams of carbs/hour (516 calories tops). I'm still not seeing how this is getting above the 560-600kcal/hour he claimed getting up to? It seems like he probably has exaggerated a little possibly. In the heat of the moment racing it's hard to remember or track exactly what you are pulling from every aid station (and large batches of drink mix product are often diluted by the aid stations).
No doubt Sis products (isotonic) allow for better ingestion and we can push more carbs faster with less GI distress though.
On their podcast, D & M said that David put the gels in a belt that was built into his shorts, so he could store several at a time.
I see how he meant to (probably) actually say: "40-30-30" [gram servings].....and doing *one* of those every 20-min. So that would be 110grams of carbs (440 calories) in an hour. Then he also had "some Skratch and electrolyte tabs". According to the Leadville 100 aid station info, they had Skratch labs hydration and that full single serving size (*if mixed at full strength*) would be another 19grams/drink serving. So now we're up to 129grams of carbs/hour (516 calories tops). I'm still not seeing how this is getting above the 560-600kcal/hour he claimed getting up to? It seems like he probably has exaggerated a little possibly. In the heat of the moment racing it's hard to remember or track exactly what you are pulling from every aid station (and large batches of drink mix product are often diluted by the aid stations).
No doubt Sis products (isotonic) allow for better ingestion and we can push more carbs faster with less GI distress though.
I think David is definitely milking his 15 seconds of fame (rightfully so) and exaggerating on a lot of his claims. (sub 4/nutrition) He later states in that interview how he basically is the most carbed runner in ultra etc... That said, Tom Evans was very open with his nutrition and did tons of testing with Maurten and Redbull in his lead up to his Western States victory last year. He stated during the race he averaged 120g/hr (carbs) and in the high country for the first 2/3 hrs he was pushing 150-160g/hr while the weather was cooler.
“Our plan started from 3 principles: 1. I’d need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4 min mile fitness. 6-minute mile pace would need to be a jog on race day, and that all came from improving my running economy. 2. I had to get stronger to handle the unknown distance, both in terms of threshold climbing and actual muscular strength. 3. I’d have to run every step of the race, including Hope Pass”
He said his plan was to be to be around sub-4 fitness. He never claimed he could go sub 4. Or did he? Seems like there is some nitpicking going on. He wanted to be fast, so 6 minute pace was easy. Why bring up the Ali O failed test? Feels to me like Sage wants to stir the pot and then pretend at the end that he feels gracious toward the Roche’s. It comes across as disingenuous to me. FWIW, Roche’s Leadville record will be broken sooner than later and Roche himself has said he isn’t on Carpenter’s level.
> "130-140grams" of carbs per hour is what he stated (which is actually 520-560calories) i believe. I can't imagine how he could even carry that much between aid stations as the crewing at Leadville was quite limited and one can only carry so many gels/drink powders at one time.
On the way out there was an aide station at most every 2 hours, so I don't see a problem there. That's a pound of sugars at most. I bet he carried much more to drink. And on the way back you pick up a pacer who is allowed the mule for you so you are not carrying anything.
He also more recently posted that he took in over 500kcal/hour which is a really high amount of nutrition for ultra running. "130-140grams" of carbs per hour is what he stated (which is actually 520-560calories) i believe. I can't imagine how he could even carry that much between aid stations as the crewing at Leadville was quite limited and one can only carry so many gels/drink powders at one time.
I'm pretty sure he was carrying Spring Awesome Sauce gels. That's got a huge amount of carbs and calories in a crazy small packet.
I talked to someone who saw him come into and leave the 50-mile turnaround aid station at Winfield. They said he was not carrying any fluids, no pack or bottles. Said it was a very quick stop maybe only to pour water on his head. He reportedly seemed relatively frantic compared to other runners, like getting sid in a 10k.
Maybe that's what he believed was needed to win and set a record and it was.
So how small are those crazy small packets? Small enough to have a bunch unnoticeably tucked into shorts? Taking them without fluids? Ingesting 500k/cal per hour without carrying anything in a pack?
Maybe he was just running so fast he did not need to carry much if anything between aid stations.
Maybe he set down his pack out on the course not wanting to carry it some distance out and back to Winfield, and picked it up on the return.
Since it is reported he is a nice guy, he likely did not have crew secretly meeting him out on the course to aid him.
I'm pretty sure he was carrying Spring Awesome Sauce gels. That's got a huge amount of carbs and calories in a crazy small packet.
I talked to someone who saw him come into and leave the 50-mile turnaround aid station at Winfield. They said he was not carrying any fluids, no pack or bottles. Said it was a very quick stop maybe only to pour water on his head. He reportedly seemed relatively frantic compared to other runners, like getting sid in a 10k.
Maybe that's what he believed was needed to win and set a record and it was.
So how small are those crazy small packets? Small enough to have a bunch unnoticeably tucked into shorts? Taking them without fluids? Ingesting 500k/cal per hour without carrying anything in a pack?
Maybe he was just running so fast he did not need to carry much if anything between aid stations.
Maybe he set down his pack out on the course not wanting to carry it some distance out and back to Winfield, and picked it up on the return.
Since it is reported he is a nice guy, he likely did not have crew secretly meeting him out on the course to aid him.
He said he was taking 30 and 40 gram carb gels. Say he had 6 to 8 of these in something like a Naked belt, it would be easy to carry them and have them be unnoticed.
“Our plan started from 3 principles: 1. I’d need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4 min mile fitness. 6-minute mile pace would need to be a jog on race day, and that all came from improving my running economy. 2. I had to get stronger to handle the unknown distance, both in terms of threshold climbing and actual muscular strength. 3. I’d have to run every step of the race, including Hope Pass”
He said his plan was to be to be around sub-4 fitness. He never claimed he could go sub 4. Or did he? Seems like there is some nitpicking going on. He wanted to be fast, so 6 minute pace was easy. Why bring up the Ali O failed test? Feels to me like Sage wants to stir the pot and then pretend at the end that he feels gracious toward the Roche’s. It comes across as disingenuous to me. FWIW, Roche’s Leadville record will be broken sooner than later and Roche himself has said he isn’t on Carpenter’s level.
I had tweeted at him about this for clarification. He literally wrote "I'd need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4min mile fitness"....so take that for what it's worth? I'd consider Matt Carpenter never broke 2:19 for the marathon (As marathon times correlate better to ultras compared to Mile/1500m times).
He again cited his 12 x 400m workout (which the one I found on Strava started at 66sec/400m...then went down to some 64-63sec 400m splits and was broken into sets with a longer rest break than between the reps (80-90sec between reps, several minutes between sets).
But then he said he "comes from a speed background and can run a fast 400m still and that the workout was 'not that hard'". He then noted that he "trained with a sub 4-miler" in Matt Daniels. [side note: Matt ran sub 4 in college I believe....which was quite some time ago!].
He then finished with "I know what I'm capable of if I focused on it."
I honestly was more interested in him even bringing up "Mile Speed" as we all know that the Mile/1500m has a very high % of Anaerobic component to it....which is very unlike 100-mile ultras (basically 100% aerobic).
The 5km reference makes way more sense as studies have been shown that velocity at Vo2max (bascially 5km race pace) correlates very well with ultra success (and marathon success for that matter). Although I also have never seen any indicators that he would also be close to "sub 14-min for 5km at altitude"?
“Our plan started from 3 principles: 1. I’d need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4 min mile fitness. 6-minute mile pace would need to be a jog on race day, and that all came from improving my running economy. 2. I had to get stronger to handle the unknown distance, both in terms of threshold climbing and actual muscular strength. 3. I’d have to run every step of the race, including Hope Pass”
He said his plan was to be to be around sub-4 fitness. He never claimed he could go sub 4. Or did he? Seems like there is some nitpicking going on. He wanted to be fast, so 6 minute pace was easy. Why bring up the Ali O failed test? Feels to me like Sage wants to stir the pot and then pretend at the end that he feels gracious toward the Roche’s. It comes across as disingenuous to me. FWIW, Roche’s Leadville record will be broken sooner than later and Roche himself has said he isn’t on Carpenter’s level.
I had tweeted at him about this for clarification. He literally wrote "I'd need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4min mile fitness"....so take that for what it's worth? I'd consider Matt Carpenter never broke 2:19 for the marathon (As marathon times correlate better to ultras compared to Mile/1500m times).
He again cited his 12 x 400m workout (which the one I found on Strava started at 66sec/400m...then went down to some 64-63sec 400m splits and was broken into sets with a longer rest break than between the reps (80-90sec between reps, several minutes between sets).
But then he said he "comes from a speed background and can run a fast 400m still and that the workout was 'not that hard'". He then noted that he "trained with a sub 4-miler" in Matt Daniels. [side note: Matt ran sub 4 in college I believe....which was quite some time ago!].
He then finished with "I know what I'm capable of if I focused on it."
I honestly was more interested in him even bringing up "Mile Speed" as we all know that the Mile/1500m has a very high % of Anaerobic component to it....which is very unlike 100-mile ultras (basically 100% aerobic).
The 5km reference makes way more sense as studies have been shown that velocity at Vo2max (bascially 5km race pace) correlates very well with ultra success (and marathon success for that matter). Although I also have never seen any indicators that he would also be close to "sub 14-min for 5km at altitude"?
aren't you on mountain time? So you were up at like 4am writing about David Roche. Wow, obsessed much?
> "130-140grams" of carbs per hour is what he stated (which is actually 520-560calories) i believe. I can't imagine how he could even carry that much between aid stations as the crewing at Leadville was quite limited and one can only carry so many gels/drink powders at one time.
On the way out there was an aide station at most every 2 hours, so I don't see a problem there. That's a pound of sugars at most. I bet he carried much more to drink. And on the way back you pick up a pacer who is allowed the mule for you so you are not carrying anything.
in terms of taking in that kind of calories it's totally believable to believe he was carrying that with the naked belt and the built in pockets in his shorts. I also raced (top 10 through 50 miles before blowing up and walking it in) and he indeed was using a belt, no vest. I raced at 100+ grams of carbs per hour (accidentally hit 150/hr for the first 3 hours). And when you're running that fast you really don't need to carry a ton between stops. Personally I was using the Precision Flow 300 gels in a soft flask and tailwind in handhelds and while I drained the handhelds and had to swap them out at every crew spot, I easily had gel leftover at every crew stop. Gels and liquid fueling are getting to be so calorie dense now that it's not difficult to carry the necessary amounts assuming your stomach can handle liquid and gel fueling for the entirety of the race.
“Our plan started from 3 principles: 1. I’d need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4 min mile fitness. 6-minute mile pace would need to be a jog on race day, and that all came from improving my running economy. 2. I had to get stronger to handle the unknown distance, both in terms of threshold climbing and actual muscular strength. 3. I’d have to run every step of the race, including Hope Pass”
He said his plan was to be to be around sub-4 fitness. He never claimed he could go sub 4. Or did he? Seems like there is some nitpicking going on. He wanted to be fast, so 6 minute pace was easy. Why bring up the Ali O failed test? Feels to me like Sage wants to stir the pot and then pretend at the end that he feels gracious toward the Roche’s. It comes across as disingenuous to me. FWIW, Roche’s Leadville record will be broken sooner than later and Roche himself has said he isn’t on Carpenter’s level.
I had tweeted at him about this for clarification. He literally wrote "I'd need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4min mile fitness"....so take that for what it's worth? I'd consider Matt Carpenter never broke 2:19 for the marathon (As marathon times correlate better to ultras compared to Mile/1500m times).
He again cited his 12 x 400m workout (which the one I found on Strava started at 66sec/400m...then went down to some 64-63sec 400m splits and was broken into sets with a longer rest break than between the reps (80-90sec between reps, several minutes between sets).
But then he said he "comes from a speed background and can run a fast 400m still and that the workout was 'not that hard'". He then noted that he "trained with a sub 4-miler" in Matt Daniels. [side note: Matt ran sub 4 in college I believe....which was quite some time ago!].
He then finished with "I know what I'm capable of if I focused on it."
I honestly was more interested in him even bringing up "Mile Speed" as we all know that the Mile/1500m has a very high % of Anaerobic component to it....which is very unlike 100-mile ultras (basically 100% aerobic).
The 5km reference makes way more sense as studies have been shown that velocity at Vo2max (bascially 5km race pace) correlates very well with ultra success (and marathon success for that matter). Although I also have never seen any indicators that he would also be close to "sub 14-min for 5km at altitude"?
Honest question: do we know that marathon performance correlates better than mile performance for some of these races?
For a 50km road, I don't think there's any question that the marathon is better. 50 mile road, yeah no brainer. But from there...it seems like related.
For a mountain 100, I'm not saying I know the answer (because I sure as hell don't), but what if the skills to run a fast mile do correlate better for these things? The muscular strength/endurance and economy would definitely be a big help.
Some of these races get so far from a standard road marathon, I'm curious if different athlete types might actually be more well suited.
I had tweeted at him about this for clarification. He literally wrote "I'd need to be capable of running a 13:xx 5k at altitude, or around sub-4min mile fitness"....so take that for what it's worth? I'd consider Matt Carpenter never broke 2:19 for the marathon (As marathon times correlate better to ultras compared to Mile/1500m times).
He again cited his 12 x 400m workout (which the one I found on Strava started at 66sec/400m...then went down to some 64-63sec 400m splits and was broken into sets with a longer rest break than between the reps (80-90sec between reps, several minutes between sets).
But then he said he "comes from a speed background and can run a fast 400m still and that the workout was 'not that hard'". He then noted that he "trained with a sub 4-miler" in Matt Daniels. [side note: Matt ran sub 4 in college I believe....which was quite some time ago!].
He then finished with "I know what I'm capable of if I focused on it."
I honestly was more interested in him even bringing up "Mile Speed" as we all know that the Mile/1500m has a very high % of Anaerobic component to it....which is very unlike 100-mile ultras (basically 100% aerobic).
The 5km reference makes way more sense as studies have been shown that velocity at Vo2max (bascially 5km race pace) correlates very well with ultra success (and marathon success for that matter). Although I also have never seen any indicators that he would also be close to "sub 14-min for 5km at altitude"?
Honest question: do we know that marathon performance correlates better than mile performance for some of these races?
For a 50km road, I don't think there's any question that the marathon is better. 50 mile road, yeah no brainer. But from there...it seems like related.
For a mountain 100, I'm not saying I know the answer (because I sure as hell don't), but what if the skills to run a fast mile do correlate better for these things? The muscular strength/endurance and economy would definitely be a big help.
Some of these races get so far from a standard road marathon, I'm curious if different athlete types might actually be more well suited.
Just musings and food for thought.
I honestly couldn't prove it. There generally aren't enough "data points" between super faster Milers (sub 4 milers) that currently run sub 4 but then also do really great at 100-mile trail ultras in the same year (I wouldn't consider Leadville or WS100 for that matter a "mountain hundred" because they are so runnable, have many road sections and the trails aren't technical at all really). Runners like David Roche or Kilian or many of the top trail-ultra runners from Europe don't really have a bunch of official track times run in races or road marathon performances (Mile, 5km, 10km or Half Marathon/Marathon) to analyze and extrapolate on?
However, consider the demands of a fast (sub 4-mile or 3:42 for 1500m):
1. Benchmark is about 1:52 or faster for 800m which requires some decent "sprint speed"
as well has a high Anaerobic Capacity (we could say the mile is only 70-75% Aerobic or so, 30-25% Anaerobic). That sometimes comes at the detriment to Runnning Economy and ability at longer distances like the Marathon-ultras.
Heck, there are lots of sub 4 Milers that can't run a great 10km even.....let alone a marathon ....where the demands are nearly 100% aerobic. Or at least there performances don't really "match up" across the distances.
As far as Running Economy goes that also changes with race pace (it doesn't necessarily get worse at faster paces). But Marathon Specific Race Pace (could be low 5:00/Mile pace) generally correlates better with UltraMarathon Trail Running Paces (7:00-10:00/Mile pace) than something like 4:00/Mile Pace on a track does.
If you think of Running Economy on a spectrum with certain "high efficiency pace ranges" depending on the individual genetics and training, then you generally want your best Running Economy pace range to be closer to your actual Race Paces. In mountain-ultra running I call it "Variable Running Economy" (not a real scientific term) but it's the concept that your efficiency at various pace ranges taken instantaneously (be it on 20% grade uphills powerhiking at 18:00/mile pace) or running downhill on technical trails at 7:00/mile pace is staying relatively good and efficient.
Of course Running Economy can be "boosted" at all pace ranges (hence one reason why we might do weights or any kind of much faster than race pace "speed work"), but as an efficiency it is about biomechanics/form, oxygen utilization, metabolism, blood flow, lactate utilization/clearance etc.
Sure there are a lot of great ultra-trail runners that come from track backgrounds (Steeple chase, 1500m/Mile, 5km, 10km, and road marathons), but it's simply "you are talented and good at distance running, period." High Vo2max? Great! However, a lot don't have a collegiate track background or formal track/road racing so we're just guessing what their PRs might be at the shorter distances (Roche), and it makes it so there is a lack of data points (which can weaken correlations) imo.
Out here at Chamonix at the UTMB 100-miler for example we had a great show down between Jim Walmsley and Zach Miller last year. Jim was a sub 4:10 and 13:50s kind of guy in college I believe...but look how close Zach Miller (not sure if he even broke 31-min for 10km or 15-min for 5km in college?!) was to him! It's not the 1 Mile Speed that matters as much in a 100-mile race. That would be like saying your 100m speed correlates better to your potential 10km time than your 5km PR does.
