Is it normal to have tryouts for a high school cross country team? My son likes running and wants to join the cross country team when he gets to high school, but on our email list we have been told that there is a time cutoff for the kids to make before they can make the team?
Is this normal? I always thought that cross country would have a lot of participants as freshmen, jv and varsity?
This is a thread for all of those people who wouldn't allow my thread to take place because they said that bad coaches taking over the cross country or track & field teams is not a problem. You do not know what you do not know.
Is it normal to have tryouts for a high school cross country team? My son likes running and wants to join the cross country team when he gets to high school, but on our email list we have been told that there is a time cutoff for the kids to make before they can make the team?
Is this normal? I always thought that cross country would have a lot of participants as freshmen, jv and varsity?
I've paid varying degrees of attention to high school cross country since 1969 and can't recall ever hearing of such a thing though it could well have happened a time or two that I've missed. I've only read part of this thread so maybe you've answered this, but have you talked to the coach? I know some here have mentioned that maybe it's something the coach is saying as a way to get kids to train over the summer but isn't going to follow through with. If this is truly what's going to happen I'd think of talking to the school's AD and maybe seeing if I could get the parents of other kids who get cut to join me.
Nobody wants to cut kids. Coaches cut for safety reasons and for budgetary reasons. Every coach would want to keep as many kids as possible knowing that there are always some who will become great runners.
But your claim that you know NXN qualifiers who were 21 minute 5k runners is false. Name 3 and you will be taken seriously.
I never claimed 21+ minute 5k runners qualified for NXN (XC), what I said is they went on to qualifily for NBON, and NON. In XC, one was all state. Multiple 21+ 5k frosh were all state in track multiple times by the time they graduated.
My point is that even if this kid gets cut by what in my view is a ridiculous standard, he shouldn't be discouraged and can still do great things in running.
I suggest you run with your son a few times and push him. If your son cannot run under 25 minutes at full effort, I’d be questioning their mental/physical toughness and ability to push oneself. Likely he is giving up when it starts to feel tough/challenging. Not a dig, a lot of kids don’t have an idea of how much they can push themselves until they are shown what they are capable of and how deep they have to dig.
run with him, push him, challenge him. Great bonding experience.
Ive seen countless 9-10yr kids untrained run under 22 minutes for real 5ks. Your son should be able to easily run under 25 if he’ll push and realize a 5k real effort shouldn’t be comfortable.
Nobody wants to cut kids. Coaches cut for safety reasons and for budgetary reasons. Every coach would want to keep as many kids as possible knowing that there are always some who will become great runners.
But your claim that you know NXN qualifiers who were 21 minute 5k runners is false. Name 3 and you will be taken seriously.
I never claimed 21+ minute 5k runners qualified for NXN (XC), what I said is they went on to qualifily for NBON, and NON. In XC, one was all state. Multiple 21+ 5k frosh were all state in track multiple times by the time they graduated.
My point is that even if this kid gets cut by what in my view is a ridiculous standard, he shouldn't be discouraged and can still do great things in running.
I know a kid who went from just over 22 mins to making footlocker xc. Never ran a step before XC and just did general sports. And yeah he got fast quickly when he started training and was running sub 17 by the end of XC and a 4:30 mile in the spring..
that was extreme but we normally had 1 kid start off around there and be running sub 17 by senior year. That was a decent depth kid (5-10th most years) for us.
Your comprehension is really lacking. You stated that kids who once were running 20 minutes for 3 miles went onto become NXN qualifiers later. But you are lying because you can't name even one.
It didn't say in the email, but from what my wife is being told by other parents, something like a 20 minute for 3 miles My son can't run that fast, unfortunately. He is trying right now to do the summer list of running, but he is more like doing a 25 minute 3 mile run according to his garmin when he said he tried to run his fastest. I know that he isn't the most talented, but he is willing to run anything the coach asks of him.
i would recommend that your son ask the coach for further clarification as to what the actual time cut off is
done appropriately, time cuts are one of the best things a coach can do for the long term health of the program as a whole, but also great for the individuals involved
it's saturday and the beach is calling my name, so gotta run, but if any coaches out there want a breakdown of what worked extremely well for me i'd be happy to share details or answer questions
I have only cut kids when it becomes obvious they will hold up XC meets by running extremely slow times.
Last year was the first time I cut someone in probably a decade.
He had never run competitively. He was a little overweight. He did train with us over the summer. But it was clear he was not going to be very good. Early August, we have a 1.5 mile time trial on our home XC course (pretty flat). He runs just under 20 minutes--three minutes slower than my slowest girl. In a real meet, he would not break 40 for 5K.
I told him he was welcome to continue to train with the team, but I would not allow him to compete. He showed up for a few more practices before hanging it up.
It is not normal, not for xc, and there are no excuses why it should be. Joe Newton recruited every boy in 9th grade at York, regularly had teams of over 200 runners and the only requirement was to attend practice. He had runners with cerebral palsy, and they competed (and the team did not leave the course until the last runner came in, even if he was 8 minutes behind the winner.).
too old for this, I am going to be honest. That was a bad decision on your part. Does not matter how slow the kid is, he showed up. And he quit because you quit on him. Bad coaching. Would you have cut the kid with cerebral palsy because he would run slow?
Your comprehension is really lacking. You stated that kids who once were running 20 minutes for 3 miles went onto become NXN qualifiers later. But you are lying because you can't name even one.
My quote that you initially responded to
"I've had multiple freshman who could not break a 20 minute 3 mile go on to do great things like placing on the podium at XC and track state, set school records, qualify for Nike/Newbalance national track meets."
I think you are the one with a reading comprehension problem.
My opinion...if your kid runs the prescribed summer plan, then runs with the coach when practices start, the issue will be moot. Tell your kid to just run. Tack on a few miles here and there to the coach's plan. A 14 year old boy will see huge gains. When it comes time for that make or break race, he'll be so adrenalined up he'll surprise himself. As others have said, kids new to running have to realize that sometimes running is supposed to be uncomfortable.
I'm going to take a guess that this team is either in Illinois or Texas.
too old for this, I am going to be honest. That was a bad decision on your part. Does not matter how slow the kid is, he showed up. And he quit because you quit on him. Bad coaching. Would you have cut the kid with cerebral palsy because he would run slow?
I would not have allowed them to race.
Since when was it our job to make sure everyone is given a chance to compete?
I have never been in the business of letting kids out there because they work really hard. There’s a lot of kids in other sports that work hard that never touch the field/court. I have a lot of girls on my track team that show up and work hard every day. I try to figure out ways to get them in track meets if I can, but sometimes there’s just not the space. So, they don’t compete either.
too old for this, I am going to be honest. That was a bad decision on your part. Does not matter how slow the kid is, he showed up. And he quit because you quit on him. Bad coaching. Would you have cut the kid with cerebral palsy because he would run slow?
I would not have allowed them to race.
Since when was it our job to make sure everyone is given a chance to compete?
I have never been in the business of letting kids out there because they work really hard. There’s a lot of kids in other sports that work hard that never touch the field/court. I have a lot of girls on my track team that show up and work hard every day. I try to figure out ways to get them in track meets if I can, but sometimes there’s just not the space. So, they don’t compete either.
Since you became a high school cross country coach. That's your job. It's high school. Kids should be rewarded for working hard.
Freshman year I had a PR of mid 22 minutes (that was my PR which I ran at the last meet, the first few were around 23-24 minutes). Senior year I ran well under 15, top 10 in state, sub 9:15 on the track. I have friends who are better than me who have progressed as much as I have. I didn't meet your arbitrary standard, but is that enough progression for you?
Since when was it our job to make sure everyone is given a chance to compete?
I have never been in the business of letting kids out there because they work really hard. There’s a lot of kids in other sports that work hard that never touch the field/court. I have a lot of girls on my track team that show up and work hard every day. I try to figure out ways to get them in track meets if I can, but sometimes there’s just not the space. So, they don’t compete either.
Since you became a high school cross country coach. That's your job. It's high school. Kids should be rewarded for working hard.
Technically, I gave him an opportunity. He trained throughout the summer to improve, but never remotely reached a respectable level. I will not put a 42+ minute JV boy in a meet. It's embarrassing for him and disrespectful to the meet organizers to hold up a meet for a slow runner.
And I disagree with your statement "Kids should be rewarded for working hard."
It's a privilege to be a member of HS athletic teams, not a right.
I applaud them for working hard. But that in no way means they deserve a uniform and get to toe the line. You sound like parents I often talk with about why their kid is not on varsity, but when I break it down by times/marks and they realize their kid is the #13 200m runner or consistently running as a non-scoring JV kid in XC, they get it. They may not be happy, but they get it.
I can count on one hand the number of kids I have told they will not be allowed to compete. That's over 24 years of coaching. So, it's not happening often.
I had a boy run 22/23min freshman year that won a state title in track his senior year. I never did cuts in xc or track which can make it hard with higher numbers but I was tough on attendance etc so mainly in track after a month the team worked down to the kids who really want to be there whether they were just having fun/working hard or where top runners wanting to go for the wins.