Anyone got any advice for what to do on Thursday (racing 400m the next Tue followed by 800m on Fri) - will be first time on the track since coming back, but not my first speedwork.
Thinking of just doing enough to stay in touch with both paces.
Maybe 2*300m at 800m pace and 2*150m at 400m pace, sprinting the first 30m of the 150s (to simulate the opening of a 400m)?
Planning on just taking as much rest as I want, no need to work to hard on a sharpener.
Going to sign up for an 800m race in July. I can also enter the 200m that starts 20 mins later. Is there any point in this - could I still sprint close to my best, or would the 800 have just wiped me out? Never tried sprinting after a hard 800 before.
Running through treacle wrote:
Going to sign up for an 800m race in July. I can also enter the 200m that starts 20 mins later. Is there any point in this - could I still sprint close to my best, or would the 800 have just wiped me out? Never tried sprinting after a hard 800 before.
It's all good training.
you have an age discrepancy. you also seem to be confusing improving speed as you age, with losing speed but maybe being able to even it out with being fitter. and no sprinter is usually training or describing what they do in miles per week or tempos.
someone trying to run the open quarter faster becomes a dedicated sprinter and does sprint workouts. IMO distance mileage will only take away top end speed needed to chase TF times, and encourage you to groove runs at steady pace. now, to be fair, plenty of distance guys are pretty quick at 400, 800, etc. but to me they are often working a trade off. their race is longer. they want to run steady splits in their longer race. they give up a smidgen of pure speed to be better at 3000 or so.
you want to break a personal record at 400 to me you need to drop the distance stuff for a bit, work on starts, work on the parts of a sprint race, do sprinter-length intervals, and get back the 1-2 seconds that distance running takes away off your top end. to me it always took a couple weeks after XC to get back the fastest gears. and i was a natural sprinter.
to clarify, no one is getting "faster" with age. they might be getting "fitter" and able to complete a faster time, if they were lazy or not really focused on a distance before. but strictly speaking you should have had better raw goods age 20-25 and be losing foot speed. but 60 is like what i ran in 7th grade so you can maybe get that just being a fitter adult.
Vee Eye Tee wrote:
to clarify, no one is getting "faster" with age. they might be getting "fitter" and able to complete a faster time, if they were lazy or not really focused on a distance before. but strictly speaking you should have had better raw goods age 20-25 and be losing foot speed. but 60 is like what i ran in 7th grade so you can maybe get that just being a fitter adult.
In pure speed terms, yes, we don't get faster in top speed, but we can hold it longer as we build speed endurance over the years.
This week:
Mon: 6.3mi easy
Tue: 5*100m strides around 16s, then 5k tempo in 21:45. 7.1mi total
Wed: 5.2mi easy
Thur: 3*100m (15s), 5*200m (35, 34, 34, 35, 34), around 3m rest (200m walk). 4.2mi total
Fri: 5.5mi easy
Sat: 4mi easy
Sun: 3.5mi easy, plus 6*50m strides practicing 800m pace and 400m starts
Total = 36mi
Solid week. Paced the Tue tempo perfectly, and think I could have run it faster (first thing in morning and hot). Thur session was weird - the 100m in 15s felt way easier than the 200m in 34-35s. Good practice for the races coming up though. Next week will be lower in mileage because of the races on Tue and Fri.
Race reports/week gone by
Mon: Rest
Tue: 400m race in 68.5
Wed: 6.3mi easy
Thur: Rest
Fri: 800m race in 2:32
Sat: 7mi easy plus 4*100m strides
Sun: 5km tempo in 21:05, 6.5mi total
Total: 25mi
Some bad news - woke up with a cold on Monday, then the 400m race caused a big flare-up of asthma which meant I've been coughing/wheezing all week. Am now keeping a diary of peak flow and inhaler usage, likely will be prescribed a stronger inhaler next week. Likely means the races this week were slower than I could do, but it's a start.
Happy with the 400m execution, if not the time. Felt like I paced it perfectly.
800m was great apart from the last 150m, where I seemed to let the race go by me. Think I could have broken 2:30 if I'd sprinted properly (was in second and 2 people went by me in the last 100m, think I could have hung with them). The 400 split was 71-73, not sure precisely. Windy and rainy conditions, so think I'm probably in 2:28 or so shape right now in a good race - get this asthma sorted and maybe I can close in on 2:25 by the end of the year. Decent rust-buster, but could have gone better.
Week just gone:
Mon: 6.5mi easy
Tue: 5k tempo in 21:15, 4*100m strides, some easy running. 6.75mi total
Wed: Alactic speed - 3*100m strides, 5*60m sprints. 4mi total
Thur: 3mi recovery (tired)
Fri: 10*175m hills, starting 36s and moving down to 32s. 6.75mi total
Sat: Alactic speed: 5*100m, progressing from hard stride to full sprint
Sun: Off
Total: 31 miles
Happy with the week apart from the off day on Sunday - was planning to run 5-6mi easy but time got away from me. Tired midweek, but the recovery run fixed it. Mostly over illness from the other week, and now have inhaler sorted, so asthma should be under control soon. I'm racing this Wed (800m) and Thur (400m and 200m), so it might not be controlled in time for that, but should be for races afterwards.
Asking for advice quickly before racing tomorrow and day after:
Did not run yesterday or day before (travelling). Before that I ran almost every day since coming back with good workouts, so I have some decent training in the bank.
Should I run today (would need to be in evening) - maybe 3mi easy with sprints, or is it best to take today off also and race after 3 days of rest? Just want to run as fast as possible tomorrow and the day after.
Great race results this week.
Mon: Rest
Tue: Rest
Wed: 800m race in 2:30. 2s faster than last time. Felt absolutely awful warming up, and ran 76s first lap, 74s second lap (roughly). Indicates I can go much faster off current fitness, and I'm getting fitter every week. 2:25 goal for this season looks in reach.
Thur: 400m race in 65.32, 200m race in 29.87. 400m race over 3s faster than last time, and indicates again that 2:25 is gettable.
Fri: 6.5mi easy
Sat: 5k tempo in 21:10, total 6.75mi
Sun: Rest (800m race on Tue)
Total = 20 miles
Very happy with tempo as I started the hard running 45 mins after waking up. I'll do 4 miles plus some strides and short sprints on Monday, before racing 800m on Tue. Thinking that targeting a 72s first lap would be best.
I'd love to hop into another 400m if I can find one. The hills and weekly sprints do seem to be making a difference, and if I can regularly race, I think I could knock off quite a bit of time.
Crappy mileage, but can't be helped with 3 races in 6 days (including the upcoming 800).
Great week again this week.
Mon: 4 miles easy, with 4 or 5 strides around 400m-800m pace
Tue: 800m race in 2:27.5. Splits were 73 and 74. Was shattered for 20 mins after and wobbled over the line - got the best I could out of myself on the day.
Wed: 6.5mi easy
Thur: 5k tempo in 21:08. Annoying - first 1.5mi were done at 6:40 pace, then collapsed to 6:55 pace. Thought I'd run a quicker tempo.
Fri: 6.5mi easy
Sat: 11 repeats 1 min hard, 1 min easy. Hard at 5:30/mi pace, easy at 11:00/mi. 6.5mi total
Sun: 3mi easy plus 5*100m strides, 5*50m sprints up hill (speed day)
Total = 36mi. Thrilled with all but the tempo - seem to be stuck at 21:00-21:15 for 5k for those, but should come down before too long. I usually screw up races, so to finally have ran one perfectly is a massive boost. I'm not racing again until the 7th, but then have 3 800m races in a week, so hoping to get under 2:25 in that period.
Kept it simple this week.
Mon: 6.3mi easy
Tue: Off
Wed: 5k tempo in 20:38, 6.6mi total
Thur: 6.3mi easy
Fri: 11*1 min hard, 1 min jog, 6.4mi total
Sat: 6.3mi easy
Sun: 5*100m sprints, first 2 very hard, last 3 flat out. 4mi total
36mi for the week
Strong tempo, but to be expected after 2 easy days prior. Intervals felt very good but might have actually been a bit slow. Sprints very hard. Racing 800m 3 times in 7 days starting on Wed, so other runs will be easy in that period.
Average week.
Mon: Off
Tue: Off
Wed: 800m race in 2:27.44. Best time by 0.13s since coming back. 3.5mi total
Thur: 6.3mi easy
Fri: 4mi plus 4*100m strides
Sat: Off
Sun: 800m race in 2:40 (!!!). 2.2mi total
Total: 16mi
800m race in Sunday was just a bad day - absolutely awful heat which I could feel in the warm-up (there's a mild heatwave in the UK). Got out hard in effort, but pace much slower than normal. Saw 59s at 300m after tying up the whole way and gave up a little. At 500m I felt a weird pain in the sole of my foot - worried about plantar fasciitis so just tempoed it in. Might have had 2:30-35 in me if I'd given it my all, but didn't want to risk injury for what was going to be a crap race either way.
800m race on Wednesday was much better. Started at the back of the field and wound up effort the whole way through. The main change I made to my race last week was to be a little more conservative from 400m to 600m and to start sprinting all-out with about 100m to go instead of 150m. This worked, I didn't tie up horribly in the last 50m which has happened in all my previous races. Splits were 36, 37, 37, 37. Finished very tired, but I think I had very slightly more to give with a faster start. Was initially given a time about a second faster but was updated - thankfully still a (tiny) SB!
I have an 800m on Wed 14th, and I'd like to start in 71 rather than 73. That might mean I can crack 2:25, which I'm really keen to do. I've then got one more 800m, 400m, and 200m before track season ends over here - but I have found some indoor 600m races in December, so it would be nice to keep improving at get close to/under 1:40 at those.
Help request for race tomorrow:
I'm racing 800m at 7:30pm. I ran 4 miles with 4*100m strides today, which was meant to be my last run before the race.
However, I now can't run on the coming Sunday, which will limit me to 31 miles this week instead of 35. I was thinking about squeezing in 4 miles plus 4*100m strides again tomorrow morning at about 8am. I've heard of people getting great results from shakeouts and strides the day of a race, but I also don't want to leave my race on the roads in the morning. Is this worth it? Main priority is racing well rather than hitting 35 miles for the week.
Too bad I saw this too late, so you've probably already made a call on what to do.
Even if you've already had a stepback week, I'd have just left it at 31 this week and not pushed for an extra workout.
But you did what you decided and that's probably fine. Hopefully, everything went well!
Thank you - worked out OK in the end! This week:
Mon: 6.3mi easy
Tue: 4mi easy plus 4*100m strides
Wed: Morning - 4mi easy plus 4*100m strides. Evening - 800m race in 2:27.11. 7.8mi total
Thur: 6.3mi easy
Fri: 5k tempo in 20:29, 6.7mi total
Sat: Likely off, might be able to squeeze in 4 miles with 5*100m sprints
Sun: Will be off
Total = 31 or 35mi depending on today
Great week with the exception of this weekend. Only time I had to run on Sat (today) was this morning, and when I woke my phone was broken, with no backup to access travel tickets for afternoon - so spent morning getting phone fixed. Will see if I can squeeze the sprints in tonight. Tomorrow has to be off, unfortunately.
Very happy with the tempo - seem to finally be getting back to respectable paces on these. Hopefully will be under 20 mins for them in a month or so - considering I started at 22 mins, this is welcome progress.
800m race was good. Went out at what felt like a hard pace, but went through 200m in 36 and 400m in 73/74 again. Kicked pretty hard on the next 200m and sprinted well over the last 100m for a SB by 0.33 seconds. I am consistently running even or negative splits for the 800m, which means I've got 2 seconds to gain if I can just get out faster. Not sure why I seem incapable of doing this - the first 200m always feels hard, but then it's 1-2s slower than it should be! I've got one more 800m race before the season ends (unless I can find another), so I really hope I can get out quicker there and see if I can crack 2:25.
400/800 slow man wrote:
I was a 400/ 800/ 1500m veteran runner and ran similar 100/ 200/400m reps as you do. What times are you running for these reps?
When I get your times I can give you an estimate of your race times based on my own rep and race times.
At one time (before the European Veteran Champs) I ran 10 x 400m at about 70 seconds each. I think with 1-1.5 sec rest. (I ran well under 60 in the 400m in competition).
Forgot to mention that I've had a small pain in the top of my foot for the last couple of weeks - don't really notice it when running, but it's definitely noticeable when I first put weight on it in the morning, or when walking barefoot. Hoping to stay healthy until the 4th of Sep (which is my last scheduled race) and then just take a week off if it's still a problem. All this is to say that 2 days of unplanned rest might not be a bad thing.
Unfortunately I don't really run 100m/200m/400m repeats, as I have no access to a track. Instead, I run hard 1 min on/1 min off repeats on a park path, or run 30s hill repeats, as my interval training. I also race on the track frequently, so that will go a long way to compensate for the lack of interval training.
My last interval session was 5*200m in 34-35s off 3 mins rest, but that was 6 weeks ago - which is a long time for me, since I've been training properly for about 3 months. I'm much faster now. That session ended up being at exactly 400m pace, but I've since run 400m faster than that, so I think I could do that session in 32s now.
On a perfect day, I think I could run 64.0, 2:25.0, and 5:00.0 right now (latter for 1500m), so I'd probably aim to run 16s, 18s, and 20s per 100m for repeats, depending on what the session goal is. But I probably can't start track training for a while, and am hoping to be faster then.