Gebre breaks 25km WR, 1:11!

barry wrote:

armstong was tested over 100 times....geb has never been tested.

You must mean tested for mono or aids or bird flu or something other than PED's.

Armstrong was tested over 100 times...last JULY! I would think on the order of 1000s is more correct of an estimate. Seven years at the top (more out of comp testing) plus several years pro before cancer, with wins in classics means lots of testing.

Geb won the olympics twice, many WCs, 20 something WRs. Each instance is a test. Plus I'm sure he gets his fair share of out of comp testing too.

Our sport has reached a depressing state. Every time someone does something amazing, it get's posted, a few comments follow regarding the amazingness of it, then pages of drug innuendo and speculation follow. I don't really blame anyone....but it's just a sad situation for modern sport. Sometimes I'm almost glad that I never got to the top level.

what a great message board! until now i had never really been impressed by trackhead as i associated him with taking too long to dub bootlegs and running around in racing shoes....but now i have to really applaud not only his beat down of a stupid post but his argument itself...congrats...and this ttc had never seemed to be kneejerk jerk before but alas give someone enough rope and their true colors shine through....world record holders break records and whirlpools whirl

Good job, trackhead, but in that reply to ttc you are throwing your 92 mph fastball at a Little-Leaguer.

Honestly you made points I either didn't know or didn't think about. But you're also acting like I'm alone in a farfetched opinion and no way is that true.

T&F's gotten caught with plenty of positives from talented athletes. These positives were from powerfully performance-enhanced drugs. Yet, Geb/Bekele can just 'naturally' blow these drugged athletes away, no problem and set new records at alarming rates. Pre's 4:00 last mile is spectacular, but doesn't compare to a 4:04 avg over 5K or 12:58 negative split in a 10K. What's El G's 5K PR?? 12:50?? And he trained for it too. How about Bekele/Geb each running back to back 13:10's? Relay Goucher & Webb on their best 5K days, and they may still lose. Now Geb's running 1:11 for 15.5 miles. It's also not as if no U.S. athlete hasn't started running at a very young age.

Especially since the drugs are out their in use, how fast do these guys go before you just roll your eyes?? 25:55 for 5K??

so the WRs are held by clean racers? how far ahead would they be, if they'd dope just like so many others?

guys, quit dreaming.

25:55 for 10k.

It will happen in my lifetime. And the suspicions will never die.

ttc, if this were 1950 you would be the guy saying that a 4min mile is impossible.

gorney wrote:

OK more accurately 15.534279805933348228563772863708436489105224609375 miles

at

4:36.614046720000018018088691029849 mile pace!

that is not more accurate.

Who can state what the limits are?

Every era, we think that the current WRs are amazing, and we are shocked when they get lowered.

Does anyone here think that 26:17 is the ultimate, and therefore 25:55 MUST be aided by chemicals / engineering?

Compare the lifestyle of the average European / Nort American with the lifesyle of the average Ethiopian / Kenyan. At 15 years, on the cusp of beginning serious training, what are the general comparisons?

This will probably go into the tired old debate regarding "genetic superiority", and I think that will be unfortunate.

Darren Skuja

ElG did not train specifically for 12:50! what the heck are you talking about?? and he ran it in June as one of his first races of the season! If he were really focusing on the 1500 that season he would have run it at the world champs and run it again that season - but he did 1500s the rest of the season and at the WC's. no one doubts that ElG could run much faster than he did, especially with Oly gold behind him.

baryy,

HOW DO YOU FACTUALLY KNOW THAT EPO TAKES EXACTLY 8 SECONDS PER MILE OFF A PERSON'S TIME???

Comments like that make me laugh. Let me relate to you what one of the world's greatest marathon coaches told me about Gebrselassie:

"Brother, Gebrselassie is the fastest distance runner to tackle the longer distances. Imagine El Guerrouj running the Marathon and that's what you have with Geb. Geb was running sub-12:50 when he was 23 years old. He was running 3:31 for 1500 meters. Who was the last 3:31 1500m runner, or 12:40 5000m runner that has a vendetta to set the roads afire? NO ONE, in the history of mankind, with 12:30/26:20 ability, has tackled the marathon distance. What you will see from Geb in the future are amazing times based on his amazing background. He could have run these roads times a decade ago. The man has been on top of his sport for over 15 years! 15 years at the top, what does that tell you about the man? 1:11 does not surprise me, 2:03 will not surprise me.. His goal is to win Gold in Beijing. That is his Master Plan, and rarely has his Master Plan ever not become reality."

whatev wrote:

ttc, if this were 1950 you would be the guy saying that a 4min mile is impossible.

Exactly!

Aussie Hey wrote:

baryy,

HOW DO YOU FACTUALLY KNOW THAT EPO TAKES EXACTLY 8 SECONDS PER MILE OFF A PERSON'S TIME???

He knows that because he saw my mile pr (5:27) and after I took EPO, it went down to a freakishly fast 5:19. Pretty soon a sub 20 5K is gonna be blasted out by me. Stay tuned....

ttc wrote:

But you're also acting like I'm alone in a farfetched opinion and no way is that true.

If you're wrong, it doesn't matter if you're alone or if 1,000 people agree with you. Wrong is wrong, and the number of fellow idiots is irrelevant.

Of course, you may be right: it's entirely possible that Geb is doped. But we don't know, and the circumstantial evidence is not remotely comparable to Regina Jacobs, or even Lance Armstrong. So your knee-jerk certitude is both misplaced and insulting.

What if you're wrong? "Oh, that's okay," you'll say. "I was the only one supporting Alan Webb in 2002, so I'm allowed to be wrong now."

Yes, what exactly is TOO fast? What times can a human hit before it is dubbed unnatural (insert in the sub 4 couldn't be done argument here) I say we set the standards right here, right now on Let'srun, make the IAAF subscribe to them and anyone who beats them must be dubbed a cheater. Are you with me!?

No but honestly what do you guys think is too fast be non-drug assisted

I'm all for hoping that guys like Geb or Bekele, who have utterly changed the distance landscape, are clean, and I really do hope they are. But good god, trackhead, how can you categorically state that you KNOW they are clean. Yes, the WRs started dropping when Ethiopia and Kenya started having a modicum of stability and resources, but that was also the very same time EPO appeared on the scene--a drug for which there WAS NO TEST.

Women's WRs dropped like a rock in the 70s and 80s. This period was coincident with women athletes gaining greater access to resources and societal acceptance, and with the rise of systematic Eastern bloc coaching. These cultural / social developments could explain the 1:54 800 and 3:53 1500s being run. But another explanation would be that this was also the exact same time that steroid use became prevalent. I know which I think had the greater impact.

Honestly, maybe it's meanspirited to say that every WR is tainted, but it's also really, really naive to say that any given WR is above suspicion. Especially records that represent quantum leaps. That's the sad truth. My gut tells me that there are more dirty WRs than clean. Your gut may tell you differently, but to just dismiss the suspicions is ridiculous. And to attack somebody who has them is also ridiculous.

Finally, I'm sure the things you say about Geb are true, but somebody can be a great person and great champion, work his ass off, sign autographs for the kids, and still take PEDs.

Thank goodness no Ethiopian has ever taken drugs, or imagine what they would run... I remember the time I talked to Bill Rodgers for a short bit and I immediately knew exactly what kind of person he was, body and soul. I am glad that in the 15 minutes you talked to Geb, you found out that he has a lot of humility and is such a great guy, because only assholes take PED's, right? And you are right about Jacobs not being a consistent champion, I mean, she only had a 22-year pro career... like Eddy and Geb.

Jesus trackhead, you are so full of crap.

I could see it being plausible that the top ten athletes in any serious sport are doped; doping technology is so far ahead of testing technology. But, since I don't know anything for certain, and since NONE OF US know anything for certain, let's just bask in our blissful ignorace. It's much nicer to believe that all these times are clean times.

Also, I would like to add something on to the whole idea of the Kenyans and Ethiopians being so much faster than us. Has anyone ever considered that, mentally, they are in a completely different realm that we are? They NEED to succeed, there's no fallback for them; they don't have the opportunities and freedoms we do. I think that, because of this, they have an extra drive and determination that we as North Americans can never dream of.

Oh, and I'm too lazy to quote, but whoever said that the Ethiopians are all on expensive drugs is dumber than my two year old sister. Ethiopia is the 5th poorest country in the world, dipshit.