Sure they’re doping, and so are the top Americans. If you took the PEDS out of the equation, the Kenyans would still be faster. Though times across the board at the elite level would be slower.
This isn’t obvious at all. Dope can provide different benefits to different athletes, and it’s possible that East African bodies have a natural bias towards greater dope impact receptiveness.
Parsimony would suggest that’s not true until proven, but then it would also suggest Africans don’t have an innate advantage until proven otherwise.
I read the article (and quote) in the original French and that's not what he said. Once again we have Coevett distorting facts like he always does.
Where is the original French posted? The English translation is weird. But it includes a jewel of a phrase for productive road runners: "Tar Stakhonivists."
I read the article (and quote) in the original French and that's not what he said. Once again we have Coevett distorting facts like he always does.
Where is the original French posted? The English translation is weird. But it includes a jewel of a phrase for productive road runners: "Tar Stakhonivists."
French: "Avant Kiptum, il a entraîné le Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, vainqueur de l’important marathon de Rotterdam et 4e à Chicago en 2018. Hélas, Kipkemoi a été suspendu deux ans pour dopage à un bêta-bloquant en 2020, une sanction réduite, l’antidopage ayant conservé un ” négligence “ dans le traitement médical. “Contrairement à Kiptum, il n’était pas discipliné”regrette Gervais Hazikimana."
English: "Before Kiptum, he coached the Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, winner of the important Rotterdam marathon and 4e in Chicago in 2018. Alas, Kipkemoi was suspended for two years for doping with a beta-blocker in 2020, a reduced sanction, the anti-doping having retained a ” neglect “ in medical treatment. “Unlike Kiptum, he was not disciplined”regrets Gervais Hazikimana."
He blames "negligence" and a lack of "discipline" when receiving medical treatment.
French: "Le dopage est partout au Kenya, se lamente-t-il. Mais ce sont surtout les maladroits qui sont attrapés, victimes du manque d’éducation et d’information."
English: "Doping is everywhere in Kenya, he laments. But it is mainly the clumsy ones who are caught, victims of a lack of education and information."
"Maladroits" can be translated to "clumsy", but in this context, it likely means the "inexperienced" or "unskilled" who have become victims of their lack of education and information.
Don't you get tired of this narrative ? Initially you were objective on this topic. But nowadays you have just gone on an anti-kenyan tangent that clearly carries racist undertones. It is quite obvious to many of us that you have lost your objectivity on this matter. If you have to keep singing this song atleast try and be more objective.
I believe that my criticisms have been fair and justified. For example, I have been critical of the Kenyan government's handling of the economy. I believe that the government has not done enough to create jobs and reduce poverty. I have also been critical of the government's human rights record. I believe that the government has been responsible for human rights abuses, such as the extrajudicial killing of protesters. I know that some people may see my criticisms as racist, but I assure you that is not the case. I am critical of the Kenyan government, not the Kenyan people. I believe that the Kenyan people are deserving of a better government.
Where is the original French posted? The English translation is weird. But it includes a jewel of a phrase for productive road runners: "Tar Stakhonivists."
French: "Avant Kiptum, il a entraîné le Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, vainqueur de l’important marathon de Rotterdam et 4e à Chicago en 2018. Hélas, Kipkemoi a été suspendu deux ans pour dopage à un bêta-bloquant en 2020, une sanction réduite, l’antidopage ayant conservé un ” négligence “ dans le traitement médical. “Contrairement à Kiptum, il n’était pas discipliné”regrette Gervais Hazikimana."
English: "Before Kiptum, he coached the Kenyan Kenneth Kipkemoi, winner of the important Rotterdam marathon and 4e in Chicago in 2018. Alas, Kipkemoi was suspended for two years for doping with a beta-blocker in 2020, a reduced sanction, the anti-doping having retained a ” neglect “ in medical treatment. “Unlike Kiptum, he was not disciplined”regrets Gervais Hazikimana."
He blames "negligence" and a lack of "discipline" when receiving medical treatment.
French: "Le dopage est partout au Kenya, se lamente-t-il. Mais ce sont surtout les maladroits qui sont attrapés, victimes du manque d’éducation et d’information."
English: "Doping is everywhere in Kenya, he laments. But it is mainly the clumsy ones who are caught, victims of a lack of education and information."
"Maladroits" can be translated to "clumsy", but in this context, it likely means the "inexperienced" or "unskilled" who have become victims of their lack of education and information.
The new anti doping lab being set up in Kenya (not by the AIU) specifically mentions in the article about it “education and information”
Goes both ways, that is… education and information about not doping and how it can be harmful or education and information on how not to get caught and how it can be beneficial to performance.
I am extremely skeptical about anything run by the Kenyan government or athletics federation.
I believe that my criticisms have been fair and justified. For example, I have been critical of the Kenyan government's handling of the economy. I believe that the government has not done enough to create jobs and reduce poverty. I have also been critical of the government's human rights record. I believe that the government has been responsible for human rights abuses, such as the extrajudicial killing of protesters. I know that some people may see my criticisms as racist, but I assure you that is not the case. I am critical of the Kenyan government, not the Kenyan people. I believe that the Kenyan people are deserving of a better government.
Great "academic" rant - using all the classic smoke and mirror words you think sound smart like "narrative" and "objectivity".
This is not an example of an exercise in narrative and objectivity - Kiptums coach literally said those words. You can interpret it however you want to, but in the OP there is no interpretation given of what those words mean.
The real bane are people like you who come up with these little techniques to get away from the real issue at hand. It doesn't matter what was said it's racism to report it? Is it racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned? Just f--k off.
The person you are responding to is 100% right, and they never said it is racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned. Learn to read, and then you just fvck off.
I guess "racist undertones" is in reference to police brutality in America then.
"Doping is everywhere in Kenya, he laments". (quote)
That pretty much covers it. The rest is detail.
The devil is in the details.
That explains why you can never see the wood for the trees. The details are simply part of the bigger picture, which according to Kiptum's coach is that doping is everywhere in Kenya.
The person you are responding to is 100% right, and they never said it is racist to catch doping Kenyans because they are dark skinned. Learn to read, and then you just fvck off.
I guess "racist undertones" is in reference to police brutality in America then.
You "fvck off" you anemic little stroker.
It's in reference to the OP, and my iron levels are just fine, thank you.
That explains why you can never see the wood for the trees. The details are simply part of the bigger picture, which according to Kiptum's coach is that doping is everywhere in Kenya.
That explains why you don't know what trees look like. Note that Kiptum's coach does not say doping unnaturally enhanced the performance of any Kenyans.
I do not ever doubt that "presence" and "use" can be found "everywhere", and not only in Kenya, but worldwide, with a few exceptions, like Japan.
I only ask for evidence of unnatural distance running performances enabled by doping. For some reason, this frightens you to the core of your personal insecurity. I'll spot you the Chinese women, and the Russian women on steroids.
Sure they’re doping, and so are the top Americans. If you took the PEDS out of the equation, the Kenyans would still be faster. Though times across the board at the elite level would be slower.
Better controls in track equated to an American, Fisher, being faster than any Kenyan. Put proper controls in marathoning, the Kenyans would be running 2:07s. Same as Mantz
