Narve Nordas on Niels Laros: "We're talking about a talent the size of Jakob - No doubt about it."

This is what impresses me the most and why I feel pretty confident he'll be a world beater in the coming years. It's not just that he's run stellar times but the fact that he's broken through at the championship level (and also ran like 97% of a great race in the final). Even for someone as talented as Hobbs Kessler, this kind of performance would be unthinkable when he was in high school. Hell, even our college kids struggle to race and perform at this level if they get the chance so the fact that Laros is already showing this racing ability is very encouraging. I think that in addition to his obvious talent, he's got some serious steel between the ears that will make him a nightmare to lineup against.

Also, how is it this guy can run 1:44 while also being a 1500/5k guy but the US high school 800 record is still 1:46? It's always seemed weird to me that other countries produce juniors who can run faster but the US high schoolers seem stuck at 1:46 as their max. It's even weirder to me that the US Jr records are then much faster and more in line the rest of the world. Not to say 1:46 is a bad record but I'd think with the 800 being a staple high school distance and the talent we should have, we'd have some 1:45 or even 1:44 guys in the last 20+ years. Do US high schoolers just need that first year of college to really race two laps?

You still pedalling this nonsense? Cheruiyot most certainly did not have PBs better than 3:31, 1:44, and 13:23 eight months ago. You're just straight up lying.

It's because your coaching and society in general sucks

Well your first error is calling Laros a 1500/5000 guy.

A big part of it is in the US the time trials/fast races are centered around the mile not 800. Cade Flatt is rare in that he actually went for that record. Hobbs Kessler probably could’ve had that record if he’d chased a fast 800. There’re a number of guys historically who didn’t enter into 1:44-5 races as preps and ran 1:46-7 as seniors and then could run 1:44-5 as college freshmen. In Europe, you get into a fast race.

One correction is Cheruiyot had run a 7:38 and 7:39 3k in 2022 (far superior to 13:23). He also finished at U20 XC Worlds 7 months ago. He has superior strength to Laros, but that isn’t really a surprise as Laros is more speed-based and running relatively low mileage.

I think he ran a perfect race in the final. You have to test that boundary and see if you have it on the day when you get to the WORLD FINAL and you aren't favored for a medal. Much better to push the limit chasing a silver or bronze and blow up to get 10th than do what Hocker has done in his two finals and run a nice, smart race for 6th/8th, in my opinion.

Laros went out like he was belonged, sat in the top 5ish. Got into position and followed Kerr's move when the pace started increasing at about 1k, had himself in medal position at the bell, and held it as long as he could. That was a perfect race. Just didn't have the legs that last 50/100.

Nordas flies in the face of your argument coming from way back for Bronze. The problem with Hocker was his lack of an explosive finish off the first 1,100 meters, not that he didn't "push the limit." He was close enough at the bell if he could run 53, but he could not because he was pretty much at top gear.

Yeah I didn't phrase that well because I'm seeing Laros as a rangy 1500 guy but my point was he's racing a range of distances and just happened to pop a 1:44. US high schoolers race the 800 all season and top out at 1:46, and even that's rare.

I do agree about the type of 800 races. Even Flatt's record attempts were in high school races so he wasn't really pushed by anyone except a pacer. I guess most US jrs don't really get into races where they're dragged through in 51/52 and have to race past 600 until college. The mile focus also doesn't help but I'm not sure if the fast US milers could've run super fast except Webb in high school. Kessler ran 1:45 this year as a "sophomore pro" and I think he'd be lucky to break 1:47 in high school.

Comparisons across age are difficult for a number of reasons. One is differing maturation rates and different training backgrounds. Another is the timing of their birthdays. If we use a number like 18, someone who has a birthday in September or later in the fall will probably have their best 18 year old time right before they turn 19, like Jakob did. Reynold has an August birthday, so his June and July times would count. Someone with a spring birthday like Laros will probably have their best 18 year old time shortly after turning 18. Ultimately, it probably isn't best to nitpick about these things. Having two U20 athletes in the 1500 final this year and going sub 4:50 over 2000m is pretty exciting.

Age cheating has been a thing, whether intentional or not, and it likely still is, but it isn't every African that doesn't know when they were born or doesn't have a birth certificate. They have schools and reading and writing as well. Athletes like Ingebrigtsen, Laros, Meyers, Kessler, Griggs, and the ever improving European and American U20 athletes (and even Jim Ryun) prove that it isn't totally unreasonable to think that mature teenagers who are training like professionals can run like professionals.

Tough to say that Cheruiyot has superior strength at the moment. Laros ran one early season 5,000 in 13:23 but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he ran mid-7:3x for 3,000. Given his speed background, he’s be better at 3,000 than 5,000. His 3,000 at Zagreb last year also confirms this. Unfortunately, we won’t find out this season.

When you age correct their performance I think you'll find that Laros has him beat in pretty much every distance, for sure by less of a margin in the longer distances, but slightly nonetheless. In the shorter distances by a lot, particularly the 800.

Laros ran a 7:48 3k one year ago exactly, a couple of weeks earlier he ran 3:39 in the 1500 as a PB at the time. This season his new PB is 3:31 and he has yet to participate in a 3k. Let's face it, he gets into a fast 3k currently he would demolish 3:38. Low 3:30s, high 3:20s is not out of the question.

I obviously mean 7:38, ignore the 3s and subsitute with 7s in the final sentence.

What I would say for Kessler is in 2022 he was only in about 3:36 shape and he still ran 1:46.87 in a low-key race. Not that he would've smashed Glanville's record, but I do think he would've beaten it in 2021 in the right race. I think he took a slight step back in 2022.

It is not tough to say at all. I don't know how many posters are aware that Cheruiyot got second in World Juniors XC and ran 13:04 in an early season road 5K. He is immensely aerobically talented. Laros has good range, but his standout mark so far is the 1500 with the 800 being second, not anything overdistance. The 2000 is very strong but the separation between Cheruiyot at 2000 is bigger than their separation at 1500. It would get wider at 3,000 and 5,000. I suspect Cheruiyot could run 7:29/12:55 and Laros 7:33/13:05 let's say.

We are Euro Centric.

Laros is the second coming of Jim Ryun

I'm not exactly sure what the "age correct" would mean here. They are both really good at 1500. Cheruiyot has run really fast/impressively in the 3K+. Laros in the 800. We haven't seen Cheruiyot race an 800, but I think it is fair to expect he would not be much under 1:46. But we don't know. I've already ceded that I think Laros' 2023 is more comparable to Cheruiyot's 2022 and thus he is ahead (decently) at 1500 (Cheruiyot never was in faster than a 3:34 race). But there's really no reason I'd think he is ahead in the 3000+ based on what we've seen or even what you're projecting.

To "age correct" means you account for the fact that one man is 8,5 months older than the other, so nearly a season further ahead in development. Might not mean a lot when you are 24-25, but at 18-19 it's quite meaningful. Just look at Laros' PB improvements from 2022 to 2023, we're talking 8 seconds in the 1500, nearly 35 seconds in the 5000m, and probably somewhere in between for the 3000. So I'm asking myself, where will Laros be in 8,5 months? And, where was Cheruiyot 8,5 months ago? When you do that, Cheruiyot's strength advantage is not obvious at all. But obviously if we just do a head to head in the 5k today, I'd back Cheruiyot.