$4000 is an entry level road bike?

Cycling has jumped the shark big time. It really wasn't that long ago that it could be pursued as a reasonable 'middle class' thing. Now it's usually the province of the well heeled and I have zero interest. Carbon wonder bikes that (1) cost thousands, (2) creek endlessly and (3) can't survive a crash? GTFO.

I go to the trail head for a run and if I see a group of cyclists, it's almost always rich bro-types pulling their carbon wonder bikes off of their hitch racks, bragging, busting each others' balls like 14 year olds.

Gross.

$4000 is NOT an entry level road bike. You can get quite a bit of quality for half of that amount. Will it be as nice as the more expensive bike? No, but it's not that far behind it either. The law of diminishing returns really kicks in when talking about bikes. You can also buy some very nice used road bikes that are only 3-4 years old for a fraction of their original price.

What kind of group do you ride with that are sporting $8000 bikes??

And it'll take you years to get there anyhow, if you just bought your first bike. Meanwhile try not to crash.

Also screw group rides. Only commuters are real cyclists. All else is hobby, even racing.

Boulder Bro's I am sure

While it has been since the early 90's that I last worked in a bike shop, the same logic still applies: it is the motor and not the chassis.

I never understood these bike prices. A couple of weeks ago went into a local bike shop and there wasn't even a bike under 3000 euros. How in the hell can a frame, wheels and some cables cost that much. You can buy a second hand motorcycle with that kind of money. Lots will say inflation but that still doesn't justify the price in my opinion. Some bikes cost almost double from others just because the cables are in the frame and it weighs 2kgs less.

Well, so it depends on what you’re doing with said bike. If you’re climbing a lot, 2 kg is an enormous amount of weight to shave off. UCI has a 6.8kg limit, so the price differential will likely strongly depend on what the starting weight it. It’s not hard for me to imagine a 5 kg build from a LBS though, so make of that what you will.

No. Bike shops push disc because anyone with a caliper set up would need to buy a whole new bike. And, of course, you can't use the really expensive wheels you got just a few years ago either, so you'll obviously need to buy another set of those. $$$

Entry level = aluminum frame, carbon fork, caliper brakes, and Tiagara components. Learn how to maintain it and it will last you 30+ years.

Give me a break. I got a bike in 2003 and started riding with our local Cat 2/3 group with zero experience. I rode with baggie shorts, a t shirt, and running shoes on standard pedals. The group started out with 25 riders and as the rides progressed, it would split into 3-4 smaller groups based on fitness. The front group would hammer and just go go go. I was always in that front group. One day a JellyBelly guy rode with us.as he was traveling through the area. He and I got to chatting and I asked him why the guys were not very friendly to me. He laughed and said they were just pissed that a guy on a $300 bike and running shoes was hanging in their group. #cyclingego

Those are high value features, especially the 2kgs.

So, I was going to ask that question. What does the graph look like for diminishing returns/bang for buck? Shimano 105, Ultegra, Dura ace? Full carbon vs alum? Where do you start just dropping $ for minimal upgrades for average road biker? (I bought my kid an 800$ Giant MB, I got to tell you, that thing is better anything 20 years ago).

1500$ ?2k?

Define the y-axis and the slope cutoff below which the returns are too diminished. You need to tell us that, not the other way round.

I consider the improved braking from disc brakes worth the improved safety. (Interestingly, for a serious hill climb attempt, some people will run only a single rim brake.)

The sales model for bikes is broken and it leads to higher prices to the consumer. There are too many middlemen (distributors and shops) requiring overhead and driving cost up. Companies like Canyon (there are some others too) are trying to streamline this and give a better price point to the customer. there is a lot of resistance in the industry but that’s inevitably where things are going.

that said, $4k is NOT entry level - don’t let the market tell you that. I just bought an aluminum gravel bike (Canyon) with discs and a grx groupset for $1600 and I’m blown away with how good a bike this is (and I have experience racing on the best bikes in the world). You can get an equivalent road bike for sub $2000 and it would be an excellent bike for 99% of road riding. Cannondale CAAD13 is slightly overpriced but I’ve ridden it and it’s a sick bike for $2000-2300. You can win races on that bike no problem. Canyon has a couple bikes in this range with 105 and discs (one is carbon) and while I haven’t ridden those I’m sure they are excellent too.

Buyers should be aware that buying used carbon is a really, really not-great idea. It's VERY hard to discern whether a carbon frame has been damaged, and the usual advice is to NEVER use carbon stems and handlebars of unknown provenance.

I'm a long time cyclist and while I understand the use of carbon fiber on the professional racing circuits, its use among amateurs is bullish*t. It is not trustworthy, especially after changing hand, over the long term.

So the posters suggesting buying used, yeah sure as long as the buyer is buying steel or titanium, maybe even aluminum. I would never in a million years buy a carbon bike, carbon wheels or stems/bars from a random seller. Never ever.

If you do buy a used carbon bike, immediately replace stem/bars and take it to a shop that has the ability to test the frame for damage and voids. Even then, I wouldn't do it.

Yeah sure, great example of cycling becoming a ridiculous vanity sport for the well heeled. Bragging about being 'out the door for under $4000' means you're utterly out of touch with the vast majority of the populace.

"Bro, you can buy a starters ski set and lift tix at Vail for ONLY like 12 grand. It's like they're giving them away."

Cycling sucks.

Regarding disc brakes - no, they aren't necessary, and I definitely wouldn't think of buying a new bike for disc brakes. I never raced a road bike with discs and when I stopped racing they were just starting to become more standard.

That said Ive now used them a lot, and today I wouldn't buy a new bike (other than a cruiser) that DIDNT have discs. (i) the cost increase is very minor (for lower end groupsets I think its $200-300), (ii) they brake so much better in all conditions, (iii) with everything going that direction, the compatibility with wheelsets is much better and (iv) the resale value is going to be much better for a bike with discs (if you care). The only real drawback is that serviceability is slightly worse (insignificant penalties in cost, weight and aero).

Some of the most terrifying moments I've ever had on a bike were descending in the rain, in a pack, while racing on carbon wheels with rim brakes. I never want to be there again and it would have been a relatively stress free situation with discs.

Worth noting that these comments are specific to hydraulic discs. Cable actuated discs are pretty niche and probably not worth it other than for maybe a touring bike where serviceability is a major factor. Make sure you check because some brands are spec'cing cable discs or jerry-rigging cable > hydro adapters.

From the depths of the North Atlantic sea floor, I totally approve this message.

-Stockton Rush