I am taking the guy who after about 18 months of running ran 3:39 and made the Olympic team as a junior in HS... And then ran an American record in the mile not some college mark. And who as a 19 year was setting world records not talking about almost winning...
You would need to be insane to think Kessler has been remotely impressive as Ryun was. Doesn't mean he can't have a better career but so far it hasn't been close...
Hobbs ran within 1.2 second of Ryun’s lifetime PR, in HS, in less time and maybe not even half the training load.
Also, I don’t disagree with your statement. Hobb’s high school career was not remotely close to Ryun’s.
More accomplishments doesn’t necessarily mean more raw talent.
Raw talent to me: if you reset both to novices, and artificially gave them the same starting point — then, gradually increased their workload. I think Hobbs becomes world class sooner than Ryun on the same workload.
I do think I know better. Of course, I did my college running in the mid-90s, at the height of the low mileage, intense speed era which produced so many good US distance runners. Ron was notorious for working his guys too hard, as were Stanford, Oregon, Arkansas, pretty much all the big programs. Look what happened to Webb at Michigan. Imagine if Webb had trained like Jakob from an early age. Perhaps I'm wrong, and Ron has changed, and moved on with the times. But all I see is another hero workout (a workout just as hard as a race, or harder, which fools an athlete into their fitness is somewhere it's not, and actively works against an athlete). Hope I'm wrong.
I do think I know better. Of course, I did my college running in the mid-90s, at the height of the low mileage, intense speed era which produced so many good US distance runners. Ron was notorious for working his guys too hard, as were Stanford, Oregon, Arkansas, pretty much all the big programs. Look what happened to Webb at Michigan. Imagine if Webb had trained like Jakob from an early age. Perhaps I'm wrong, and Ron has changed, and moved on with the times. But all I see is another hero workout (a workout just as hard as a race, or harder, which fools an athlete into their fitness is somewhere it's not, and actively works against an athlete). Hope I'm wrong.
Ron's training IS hard, but it kept Willis upright for almost 20 relatively productive years, Sully for years and Brannen.fairly productive years I think . If you asked Alan Webb on direct, I believe he would admit that he was too impatient period. He was 11th in Cross as a frosh at 10K, he was well trained enough, his progress in the 15/mile was never going to be linear, his "one off" 3:53.x was going to be hard to get to, in a short window regardless who coached him , in fact even after leaving Ron, he did not run faster for 3 years back with Razcko. I am wondering who you coached, if you say you know better.. then you would know that training has shifted pretty far from the 90's first of all and Ron's training is excellent..Mason Ferlic? 3:35 and 8:18..Beadlescomb from 13:17 to 13;08.x Flanagan from 13:24 to 13:13 under Ron. You said you know better than Ron? I would need to see your resume, it's a kind of foolish arrogant think to tout, I think. Look, am I biased.. Indeed, everyone knows that on here.I am for sure. Ron is a friend of mine, But I also think that while his training may not be for everyone, systems rarely are, the success model stands up, I think?
My rule of thumb is that anytime an elite athlete posts a workout video like this, it's not a workout, it's a race. All a hero workout like that does is burn an athlete out. That's one less race effort he has in his legs and an earlier end to his season. But looks cool to those who don't know better.
No way a workout like this will lead to "burnout." It's only 1800 meters of fast running, and if you watch the video, Hobbs wasn't anywhere close to Death's doorstep on this session. And the "burnout" term is Way overused / misused on these boards.
My rule of thumb is that anytime an elite athlete posts a workout video like this, it's not a workout, it's a race. All a hero workout like that does is burn an athlete out. That's one less race effort he has in his legs and an earlier end to his season. But looks cool to those who don't know better.
No way a workout like this will lead to "burnout." It's only 1800 meters of fast running, and if you watch the video, Hobbs wasn't anywhere close to Death's doorstep on this session. And the "burnout" term is Way overused / misused on these boards.
I highly doubt Kessler posted his own video from this workout anyway, he also came out of this quite well.
Hocker and Nuguse didn't run 3:34 in high school after running for 2 years (Kessler ran faster than Nuguse's CR that he'd set a couple weeks prior).
Both incredible performances but this is a dumb comparison. One was a perfectly paced professional field that resulted in the winner running the top US 1500m of the year. The other was a college conference prelim ran completely alone.
Beadlescomb also did the workout, does that mean he is going to get second place in the Olympics? It is arguably more impressive that Beadlescomb, a long distance runner, can stick with a mid distance guy in a sprint workout.
Beadlescomb is 25 and was behind Kessler. Kessler will be 25 at the 2028 LA Olympics. Kessler's season opener at age 20 was 3:32. He was 1 second behind a very in form Cheruiyot. How many 3:32 guys can say they were a world class rock climber a couple years ago?
0. His best is only a 5.14c and a 34th place in an internatonal youth competition.
I do see talent; I think Hobbs is definitely capable of making the USOT and 'perhaps' an Olympic 1500 final. I say perhaps because you need to be a solid 3:32 guy to make it through the rounds with killing yourself and to date he has only run 3:32 once. However, there are at least a half dozen athletes in the world who can run his PR pace for 3 laps and kick hard down to a few seconds faster. Most of these athletes have more speed and strength. A good indicator of potential is what an athlete does in a shorter or longer event; Hobbs does not have a really fast 800/3000/5000. Cheruiyot (T) for example is a 1:43x 800m runners and Jakob has a 7:24 .00 PR. - With all of that said, Coach Ron has earned the benefit of doubt and perhaps he sees something that we don't, therefore nothing is impossible.
I am taking the guy who after about 18 months of running ran 3:39 and made the Olympic team as a junior in HS... And then ran an American record in the mile not some college mark. And who as a 19 year was setting world records not talking about almost winning...
You would need to be insane to think Kessler has been remotely impressive as Ryun was. Doesn't mean he can't have a better career but so far it hasn't been close...
Hobbs ran within 1.2 second of Ryun’s lifetime PR, in HS, in less time and maybe not even half the training load.
And what place did he come in at the Olympic trials? Being able to train like Ryun is talent. Not many people are running 90mpw+ a year into their career without breaking down.
I do see talent; I think Hobbs is definitely capable of making the USOT and 'perhaps' an Olympic 1500 final. I say perhaps because you need to be a solid 3:32 guy to make it through the rounds with killing yourself and to date he has only run 3:32 once. However, there are at least a half dozen athletes in the world who can run his PR pace for 3 laps and kick hard down to a few seconds faster. Most of these athletes have more speed and strength. A good indicator of potential is what an athlete does in a shorter or longer event; Hobbs does not have a really fast 800/3000/5000. Cheruiyot (T) for example is a 1:43x 800m runners and Jakob has a 7:24 .00 PR. - With all of that said, Coach Ron has earned the benefit of doubt and perhaps he sees something that we don't, therefore nothing is impossible.
He ran a great 2:16.x 1000m
5th fastest U20 ever?
thats pretty good at 19
Listen Jakob IS that 15/3k all the way to 5k guy.. he already is an all time great at 22
I dont think you would be a flop if you were not ever that good lol
I do see talent; I think Hobbs is definitely capable of making the USOT and 'perhaps' an Olympic 1500 final. I say perhaps because you need to be a solid 3:32 guy to make it through the rounds with killing yourself and to date he has only run 3:32 once. However, there are at least a half dozen athletes in the world who can run his PR pace for 3 laps and kick hard down to a few seconds faster. Most of these athletes have more speed and strength. A good indicator of potential is what an athlete does in a shorter or longer event; Hobbs does not have a really fast 800/3000/5000. Cheruiyot (T) for example is a 1:43x 800m runners and Jakob has a 7:24 .00 PR. - With all of that said, Coach Ron has earned the benefit of doubt and perhaps he sees something that we don't, therefore nothing is impossible.
He ran a great 2:16.x 1000m
5th fastest U20 ever?
thats pretty good at 19
Listen Jakob IS that 15/3k all the way to 5k guy.. he already is an all time great at 22
I dont think you would be a flop if you were not ever that good lol
Btw, I don't mean to take anything away from Hobbs. No doubt, 2:16 is rolling, but it's basically a 1:48 (800); it's the minimum I would expect based on his Jr mile time. In my mind, 2023 is a reset year for Hobbs, I am no longer projecting anything based on what he did in H.S./junior. (That train has left the station!) This year is about establishing an elite level baseline, simply proving he can be a solid pro, making a national senior team and showing himself approved in DL meets. He's good and still young, therefore no one can say what's possible down the road...but I don't see Hobbs winning global championship medals right now.
Listen Jakob IS that 15/3k all the way to 5k guy.. he already is an all time great at 22
I dont think you would be a flop if you were not ever that good lol
Btw, I don't mean to take anything away from Hobbs. No doubt, 2:16 is rolling, but it's basically a 1:48 (800); it's the minimum I would expect based on his Jr mile time. In my mind, 2023 is a reset year for Hobbs, I am no longer projecting anything based on what he did in H.S./junior. (That train has left the station!) This year is about establishing an elite level baseline, simply proving he can be a solid pro, making a national senior team and showing himself approved in DL meets. He's good and still young, therefore no one can say what's possible down the road...but I don't see Hobbs winning global championship medals right now.
Listen Jakob IS that 15/3k all the way to 5k guy.. he already is an all time great at 22
I dont think you would be a flop if you were not ever that good lol
Btw, I don't mean to take anything away from Hobbs. No doubt, 2:16 is rolling, but it's basically a 1:48 (800); it's the minimum I would expect based on his Jr mile time. In my mind, 2023 is a reset year for Hobbs, I am no longer projecting anything based on what he did in H.S./junior. (That train has left the station!) This year is about establishing an elite level baseline, simply proving he can be a solid pro, making a national senior team and showing himself approved in DL meets. He's good and still young, therefore no one can say what's possible down the road...but I don't see Hobbs winning global championship medals right now.
What a silly comment. Hobbs ran an 800 in 1:49, and then a 200 at 1:48 (27) pace after that. And you saying it’s worth a 1:48.
Of course, I did my college running in the mid-90s, at the height of the low mileage, intense speed era which produced so many good US distance runners.
I've just glanced through this thread, so I've probably missed some obvious clues, but I just want to be sure: You are joking, aren't you.