Lance Armstrong

i posited he could destroy any SUB-elite runners... whether or not he could beat or even hang with any elite runners is subject to conjecture, ie this thread (put the line of demarcation wherever you wish).

When Lance first won the tour, he and the USPS weren't a big deal, in fact they barely qualified as a team for the tour, and Lance couldn't find a sponsor aside from the fledgling USPS. No real reason to protect him like, say, a Geb that is already well under 13 and decidedly sans cancerous brain lesions...

Perhaps he is juiced up now, but if you look at before and after pictures, just his _demeanor_ on the bike, and read about his character... its clearly the story of a man who got his ass in gear, so to speak. Maybe the cancer helped... but I can't imagine it being the best thing that could happen to someone. I imagine it being like the 7th mile of a ten mile tempo... that lasts for 18 months.

Regardless, even if he is EPO'ed up, he can't possibly be as bad as Marco Pantani ;)

Maybe we could all do some networking to find a huge donor that could throw 10 or 20 million towards cancer research if Lance would do something like

break the ironman record

set any american records in running

win the olympic tri (easiest of the options)

win western state ultra

???

...imagine the dedication he'd put into his training for one of these if he woke up every day knowing what the cause was for.

LA ran 15:36 as a HS Jr. to win his only X-C race of the season. It was 3 miles and was pretty flat, but it was the first race of the season (real hot weather) and he easily whupped a guy who ended up running 15:08 by the end of the season, so it's likely he could have run under 15:00 if he'd kept competing. As far as I know, that was his last HS running race, so the speculation about him doing 9:15 for 3,200m is probably incorrect (unless he ran one unattached someplace). Alas, his long-term potential as a 10,000m man is anybody's guess.

JK- I remember running a race as a feshman in High School at Mountain View College where he cruised a win in 15:20 , and beat Keith Pickett who was a decent miler in high school(4:18 I believe). I have a friend who is now a short track cyclist that ran with Lance at Plano East and he has told me about some of their training. Things like 8 milers in 44:00 with no problem. There's no doubt that if he stuck with running that he would have been a stud. It has to do with his passion and desire to be the best. It doesn't hurt that he's got the obvious cardio tools to go with it too. He chose cycling and it's obvious that was the right choice! Go Lance! Go USA!

Are there any doubters still out there? This guy has proven he has/had great running natural ability, and still does some run training. With his absurdly huge aerobic base from being the greatest bicyclist in the world, he could clearly kick some ass running the 10k with right training (ie speed workouts). It might take a little while, but he would do it. Does anyone question his determination?? His talent??? His aerobic back-ground????? When he was 14/15 (according to his latest book), he would ride his bike 10 miles in the AM to a pool, swim 3 miles. Get a ride to school. In the PM? Repeat. Every friggin day. Biking 20 miles and swimming SIX miles a day at age 14/15 is a more impressive aerobic background than the Kenyans? with their running 5 to 7 miles day as children to school (OK, some of them were younger, but still). Shortly ( a year or so?) thereafter, Lance became national Jr Triathlon champion. His running accomplishments (detailed in earlier posts) was with a nearly 0 focus on running. If he had focused on running?..who knows, but the sky would have been the limit. But, despite saying all that, he would have still not have beaten the top Africans if he had chosen a running career. That is THEIR sport. But an American record in the 10K??? It might have been (if he had focused on running more these past years). Lance?s mental/physical toughens, iron will, willingness to hurt, desire to win makes someone like Al Salazar look like a pussy. And Al was our toughest runner in a long time.

Dude would have to get used to the pounding - that takes TIME, has to jettison that cycling-specific muscle - TIME, and must learn to RUN.

Running fittness quickly translates great early success in cycling - doesn't work the opposite way. Also, cycling is very tactical, the fittest guy (ahem - or gal) is most usually NOT the winner.

I believe you all are WAY optimistic about Lancey-boys running potential. I'd give him a 33min 10K before he loses interest. Not a chance in the marathon, unlikely 1/2M.

What are you thinking?

True his muscles are not quite geared specifically for running. But you are quite incorrect about the transfer from cycling to running. It is much easier to transition to running ie lower gear. Lance specifically has a high cadence that would be ideal for a runner. I would put him up against ncaa all americans anyday

Also, his wife is hot.

Hey, bud - I am a former pro cyclist - I've made that same transition myself - and I was more successful than Lancie-baby. You would have no idea who I am, because I am a WOMAN. Was a runner first (16:31 5000m), was 5th @ elite US Nats. USCF, my second bike race ever; rest is history. Making the transition back, even having been a runner initially, way different. Also - 10yrs coaching experience - and experience having transitioned runners to the bike and cyclists to running.

Whats your knowledge base?

Gotta disagree with you here, himmelskip. The transition back to running is definately faster than the initial transition to cycling. Fifth at USCF is admirable, but that is more a testament to your knack for racing than an easy transition. It takes years of riding to develop the strength in the legs to perform well at anything beyond one-day classics, but only a fraction of that time to "re-balance" the legs for running. Particularly for someone like Lance who runs a fair-amount in the off-season.

By the way, himmel, did you happen to win Kinney's in the mid-80s???

-kk

Due to the minor structural differences between women and men that might be an exception to the transition. We were talking about Lance not just any cyclist I might add. What would he do on the US level is cycling?HMMM. I have elite level experience as a runner but not as a cyclist. So I guess I am not qualified to answer questions of transitioning. I was just speculating. I am sorry. But please for the love of God do not compare yourself to Lance there is no woman in the world that compares to his ability on the other side of the gender gap. 33 min. 10k is an insult to him. You probably don't know much of running times but there are 8th graders that can run that.

PS I couldnt transition to cycling. In fact I look like I am riding with a flat tire when I do ride. Maybe its the vintage fuji. Even If I had a nice bike you would still smoke me. I bow down to your cycling prowess

Sincerly

Laurent Jalabert "ja ja"

Running and Cycling... Tranisitions as a specialized athlete going from one to the other, all interesting questions. My two cents:

Well, I'm a runner first, and used to run solid 3 years back, I'm more of a workout Track-Rat who could churn 200m repeats all day long..

So, I just gave a triathlon a whirl, and guess what, I sucked, sank like a rock while swimming, made a bunch of time up cycling, and ran the fastest run spilt of the day, even though I barely finished in the first third of the pack.

Several of the local Tri studs do track workouts when I'm screwing around doing mine, and boy, do those dudes look glued to the ground.. Very little knee lift, but they are strong, they get through the entire workout at a decent clip even though they look god-awful..

All that said, I'd have to side with Kimmel on this one, cycling is more tactical, and I might add, equipment has alot to do with success, at least in triathlon. You can buy yourself faster times. Sometimes fitness (VO2) and LT has little to with who gets to the line first.

Slightly off-topic but the race just ended a few minutes ago.

Does anyone remember Jack Foster from New Zealand. He ran 2:11.19 at 41. He was a bicylist until 37. While this doesn't prove that bicylists would make great runners, it is certainly fuel for the fire.

looks like someone is in love....

I have his book. He was more or less a recreational cyclist most of his life. Didn't start running until 32, not 37. Only ran 4:19 in the mile. High 13's for 5k, high 28's for 10k. Didn't do "interval" workouts. Just went for a hard run each day over varying terrain, sometimes with a few miles "picked up". But still, any endurance athlete could be made into a good runner given time. Endurance is still endurance. Your lungs don't care if your running, swimming, or cycling. It's the legs that would need some time to adjust. Give Lance 5 years or so and he'd be damn good. But who cares. He ain't gonna take 5 years to see about "ifs" "ands" or "buts".

Alan

ok the ONLY reason the transition from running to biking may be harder is the adaptation period it takes to learn how to use gears on a bike. The actual physiological transition from runing to biking is far easier than vice versa. Cyclers legs aren't used to impact, their calves and ankles are not used to having weight on them. Their quads are waaaay too big for distance running purposes. I have actually never heard it argued the other way. My point of view though.....

anyway, Lance's VO2 MAX was tested at the age of 14 or 15, i believe, in Texas. It STILL is the highest mark ever recorded in Texas (i believe it was an 85 correct me if im wrong), so unless he was using drugs at this age, etc etc..... the reason he kicks so much ass at the tour rather than before his battle with cancer, is due to his great weight loss in the shoulders and upper body, and now he doesnt have to carry as much weight through the mountains, and it works to his benefit. He still holds the school record at Plano East high school in Dalls in the 3200m, maybe in other events too, but i am only sure of the 3200 m record. I dont know the exact time but it is in the low to mid 9's. With his staggering VO2 given a couple years of a full running schedule, he could easily break 30 on the track. Cycling is his love, and that wont ever happen, its fun to speculate though.