You're constant noise when you post. You accuse over 90% of T&F athletes of p.e.d. use. You state zero facts to support your claims. Your theories are weak. Pick four athletes at the most per year and then make your case.
Well, always this fast accusations of doping when a new young runner popps up in the world top. Hypothetically he could be a runner who dops but I guess of course they took samples from him in Valencia so we will soon get info if clean. Further he has already run a 58:42 half , so practically and theoreticaly he should be able to run around a 2:02 marathon. One of my coached elite runners know him and I will ask my runner what he knows about Kiptum.🇸🇪🧙♂️
Dude, you're incredibly annoying. It's weird how you try to be "woke" with regards to doping yet you have no clue how it works. Doping is not magic. Yes a coach helps, yes you still need to train hard, and you still need to have actual talent to run sub 2:02. It's not like this is a 2:20 guy without PEDs.
Just assume that the top x% of pros are juicing, and stop being so shocked and incredulous every time somebody runs a fast time. Let's assume that this guy is on PEDs (as I do for all top runners), this is still an incredible performance, made even more incredible by his claim that he is self-coached.
You're constant noise when you post. You accuse over 90% of T&F athletes of p.e.d. use. You state zero facts to support your claims. Your theories are weak. Pick four athletes at the most per year and then make your case.
You are absurd. Tests catch very few; it is known that many more dope. When the incentives to dope are there the practice will be widespread. World record-holders, world and Olympic champions have been caught so it is obvious that the very best will dope. It is virtually impossible now to claim with any confidence that the best athletes are clean. That isn't simply my own view but of those who have investigated doping practices. But running fans remain dreamers.
Dude, you're incredibly annoying. It's weird how you try to be "woke" with regards to doping yet you have no clue how it works. Doping is not magic. Yes a coach helps, yes you still need to train hard, and you still need to have actual talent to run sub 2:02. It's not like this is a 2:20 guy without PEDs.
Just assume that the top x% of pros are juicing, and stop being so shocked and incredulous every time somebody runs a fast time. Let's assume that this guy is on PEDs (as I do for all top runners), this is still an incredible performance, made even more incredible by his claim that he is self-coached.
I have never said that the best athletes lack talent. I would maintain that the most talented are also those who are doping - hence the incredible performances and world records we see. But we agree on one thing, that like most top athletes now Kiptum is doping.
Dude, you're incredibly annoying. It's weird how you try to be "woke" with regards to doping yet you have no clue how it works. Doping is not magic. Yes a coach helps, yes you still need to train hard, and you still need to have actual talent to run sub 2:02. It's not like this is a 2:20 guy without PEDs.
Just assume that the top x% of pros are juicing, and stop being so shocked and incredulous every time somebody runs a fast time. Let's assume that this guy is on PEDs (as I do for all top runners), this is still an incredible performance, made even more incredible by his claim that he is self-coached.
I have never said that the best athletes lack talent. I would maintain that the most talented are also those who are doping - hence the incredible performances and world records we see. But we agree on one thing, that like most top athletes now Kiptum is doping.
Yes but what's your point? Of course good coaching helps even if you're doping. Doping isn't magic.
So yes, doping is irrelevant when discussing the possibility of Kiptum being self-coached. It's not like the 2:02 or 2:03 guys are clean either. You're just being annoying in every thread to score woke points.
I have never said that the best athletes lack talent. I would maintain that the most talented are also those who are doping - hence the incredible performances and world records we see. But we agree on one thing, that like most top athletes now Kiptum is doping.
Yes but what's your point? Of course good coaching helps even if you're doping. Doping isn't magic.
So yes, doping is irrelevant when discussing the possibility of Kiptum being self-coached. It's not like the 2:02 or 2:03 guys are clean either. You're just being annoying in every thread to score woke points.
It's "woke" to call out doping? Not everyone is as happy to celebrate the achievements of dopers as you - whether they are "self-coached or not.
It's increasingly evident Kiptum wasn't confident in his ability to hang with that pace. The camera caught him praying at least twice. He first crosses himself at 1:21:14 in this video when Tamirat Tola moves to the front and cranks up the pace. He seems unsure and looks behind several times as if he was debating falling back to the dropped group running more sensibly. Another sign of the cross at 1:37:17 when he decides to go for broke and drop Tola and Geay.
Full race replay from the 2022 Valencia Marathon.Website: http://flosports.link/3p20lTjSubscribe: http://flosports.link/3p4YLQpGet the FloSports iOS app: htt...
First of of, Kelvin is not 23. More likely 28-30. Finn-san says add 5-7 years.
What is the rationale for thinking he is lying about his age by that significant margin or at all? He never competed as a junior, so there is no financial incentive to lying about it. His first race I see that was tracked by World Athletics was in October of 2018. It'd be quite strange to debut at age 23-25, even if he was somewhat a diamond in the rough being from a tribe not known for distance running excellence.
In general, the time is eye-popping but I think we now need to readjust our thinking a bit because if you can run sub-59 you are capable of translating that into sub-2:03. Of course, there is no guarantee because many (maybe even most) athletes struggle at the full distance. Then of course conditions can come into play. As more of the athletes that run 57:xx and 58:xx make their marathon debuts, I'd expect 2:01s and 2:02s becoming more commonplace.
Yes but what's your point? Of course good coaching helps even if you're doping. Doping isn't magic.
So yes, doping is irrelevant when discussing the possibility of Kiptum being self-coached. It's not like the 2:02 or 2:03 guys are clean either. You're just being annoying in every thread to score woke points.
It's "woke" to call out doping? Not everyone is as happy to celebrate the achievements of dopers as you - whether they are "self-coached or not.
Yes. We get it, you're "woke" to the fact that top athletes are doping, good for you, you're so smart. Most people on this board agree that this performance is probably not clean. But it's irrelevant to the point about him being self-coached, which is actually interesting and unusual.
You're acting like an SJW who needs to inject racism into every tangentially related conversation. You're not smart for pointing it out, you're just derailing the conversation because you have nothing interesting to contribute. It's almost like you just recently realized that top athletes dope and you feel the need to tell everyone about it. Enough.
In general, the time is eye-popping but I think we now need to readjust our thinking a bit because if you can run sub-59 you are capable of translating that into sub-2:03. Of course, there is no guarantee because many (maybe even most) athletes struggle at the full distance. Then of course conditions can come into play. As more of the athletes that run 57:xx and 58:xx make their marathon debuts, I'd expect 2:01s and 2:02s becoming more commonplace.
+1
I keep saying that the world record is soft. Not "just" because it was set by an aging star with a huge positive split, but also based on history. Ten years ago, we already had three 2:03 runners, now we have - despite the super shoes and all other progress like Maurten gels - three 2:01 runners (two old guys and a newbie...). That is not a lot of progress - yet. I expect a lot more to come in the next couple of years.
Kiptum is clean as can be. The guy is just a natural runner, self coached and eating Ugali. This guy was born to run. The doping accusations are coming from fat freaks who struggle to waddle to the fridge. This man is so clean I would guess that Rekrunner would lick ice cream off of him.
This thread isn't about whether he's clean or not. But how he can achieve what he did by himself.
We live in a new world now! To be self coached doesn’t mean to train alone! That’s the beauty of East Africa! There are many runners doing this actually! It doesn’t mean you can’t get some advice from the peers or the internet, …you can do easily a research on how to train and apply it to your capabilities! Plus when you are self coached, you monitor more how you feel, so not obliged to push when your body is not ready! What’s lacking for many East africans is not training settings but opportunities!
People on here accuse easily an outlier performance (may be sometimes rightly so) mostly when done by an African but the question is what are the so called professional runners in developped countries doing? How can you be called a professional runner when you can race only once a year and be paid thousands of dollars if not millions? There might be cases of doping but this sport doesn’t treat everybody equal!!
The day we open up the books compare the salaries for top runners according to performances not according to whatever other stupid small prints we will talk!! Imagine what would be the sport of long distance running without Africa?! At least we are trying to excel despite the lack of means and we don’t run scared! We push boundaries, people will talk, people will judge but meanwhile we are preparing for tomorrow! We used to run barefoot, now we have shoes can they keep up? We used to massage each other to recover now more physios are being trained are they ready to keep up? We used to drink water and tea to recover, now we have the carbohydrates and recovery drinks! Wait when we start doing training low and live high, it’s just the beginning! I can’t wait when women will be running 2h08-2h10 in marathon! Let me tell this, you shouldn’t be impressed about what you are seeing now, there is even more to come!
Even on this website who can refute that a low 26’ guy can run 57’ half? Who can refute that a 57’ half guy can run a marathon in under 2h now? The next question is now why there not more americans that are able to run 26-27’ transitioning to half in 58-59? Even Solinsky ran under 27’ on the 10! Even worse why there are not more americans able to run 2h05-2h06 let alone 2h03? Frankly, 2h06 is only a 3’/km pace or 4:45/mile for you!
I may have some hypothesis why is this but I will keep them to me. But to give you a hint, we are not the ones who burn their young athletes too early while they are still in school! Sorry for the length of post😉
I'm one of the toughest ones on this site on anyone if a person tests positive. I assume athletes are clean unless there is evidence to the contrary. K Kiptum raced 28:xx 10000m & 58:xx 1/2 Marathon. I don't recall reading any threads accusing him of p.e.d. use. We've gotten used to watching 3000m to 1/2 Marathon athletes racing fast Marathons. We saw today, the 3000m to 1/2 Marathoners like Bekele & Kipchoge don't have to reign the Marathon forever.
come on don't you see a difference between 28:xx 10k and 2:01 marathon?
28:00 doesn't even get you in the top 1000 of all time. 2:01 is n3 of all time, only behind two legends of the sport. Two legends that did not underperformed in the marathon like you suggest.
58:42 is 20th all time. But this guy break 2h02 at his 1rst attempt? It's ridiculous.
This performance is as if kiplimo ran 1:59:30 for his debut, training alone and not competing for a long time. Does that seems logical to you also?
In this sport, like cycling, it's not winners are clean unless proven dopped but the opposit.
I'm one of the toughest ones on this site on anyone if a person tests positive. I assume athletes are clean unless there is evidence to the contrary. K Kiptum raced 28:xx 10000m & 58:xx 1/2 Marathon. I don't recall reading any threads accusing him of p.e.d. use. We've gotten used to watching 3000m to 1/2 Marathon athletes racing fast Marathons. We saw today, the 3000m to 1/2 Marathoners like Bekele & Kipchoge don't have to reign the Marathon forever.
come on don't you see a difference between 28:xx 10k and 2:01 marathon?
28:00 doesn't even get you in the top 1000 of all time. 2:01 is n3 of all time, only behind two legends of the sport. Two legends that did not underperformed in the marathon like you suggest.
58:42 is 20th all time. But this guy break 2h02 at his 1rst attempt? It's ridiculous.
This performance is as if kiplimo ran 1:59:30 for his debut, training alone and not competing for a long time. Does that seems logical to you also?
In this sport, like cycling, it's not winners are clean unless proven dopped but the opposit.
Technically yes a 28:00 10k guy should be able to run a notch 59’ half. And depending on the athlete profile a 59’ guy should run 2h02, put it in your head and get used to it now! If you wanna put Kiplimo in the conversation I have no doubt he can run 1h59:30 if this becomes his priority!
Kiptum has zero top races besides the half marathon two years ago. No track, no cross, no majors. It’s hard to imagine that this is a clean performance.
The doping game for endurance athletes is not so much about a holy grail of dope, but new, unidentified masking agents. I also think all pro runners should be required to have biological passports, which regularly tracks their crit levels and many other key markers.
Kiptum has zero top races besides the half marathon two years ago. No track, no cross, no majors. It’s hard to imagine that this is a clean performance.
The doping game for endurance athletes is not so much about a holy grail of dope, but new, unidentified masking agents. I also think all pro runners should be required to have biological passports, which regularly tracks their crit levels and many other key markers.
He ran 59:02 in Valencia last year. I agree that you'd like to see all athletes in the RTP with blood testing, ABP and frequent OOC testing. Kiptum's performance ensures that he will be in it going forward. That being said, you can't guess who may emerge from the many Kenyans running between 58:30-59:15 who will translate to the marathon. The authorities do the best they can with finite resources.
It's "woke" to call out doping? Not everyone is as happy to celebrate the achievements of dopers as you - whether they are "self-coached or not.
Yes. We get it, you're "woke" to the fact that top athletes are doping, good for you, you're so smart. Most people on this board agree that this performance is probably not clean. But it's irrelevant to the point about him being self-coached, which is actually interesting and unusual.
You're acting like an SJW who needs to inject racism into every tangentially related conversation. You're not smart for pointing it out, you're just derailing the conversation because you have nothing interesting to contribute. It's almost like you just recently realized that top athletes dope and you feel the need to tell everyone about it. Enough.
Most people on this board would not be happy to overlook the fact he is likely doping, so as to admire his self-coached "achievements" as you do. If he was running 2.06-2.07 clean would you be so impressed with how he coaches himself?