No XC spikes rule in CA is a myth

Cush, you seem primarily offended by the fact that I considered school-sanctioned running to be a waste of time. If everyone felt that way, you'd be out of a job. You have an agenda when promoting the idea that these school-sponsored teams and events are meaningful. Of course my comment offends you. The year nobody signs up for your team is the last year you're needed. I am not saying nor hoping that ever happens. I understand your sentiment and will not argue against it.

I wasn't at the invitationals you refer to. I have never been to Mt. SAC, for example. It was hundreds of miles away. I have never run a race in high school or since in the southern half of the state. The runners you refer to and I were never in the same race. Although I ran plenty unattached, I attended no big race such as those you refer to in which my school was involved. Many runners have great, meaningful high school experiences. Hopefully many more will. I did too - without the involvement of my school.

Feel free to post the results of any true invitational in which you participated. I do not claim you did or didn't run in the Wetklasse. Great if you did. It is an actual invitational. If you aren't on the list, you aren't running. Kudos for getting in.

As far as the actual topic: No, you did not post a clear answer. Your writing skills were not the problem. You didn't write the CIF rules. You merely copied an excerpt. My reading skills were apparently not an impediment either. You posted a National rule that any state's federation may obey or not. It allows spikes if you copied it correctly (I assume you did). And closer to the point but not exactly on it, you posted a Southern Section rule which has no sway at all in the other 90% of the state. If there is a CIF rule that applies to every state-sanctioned event in every Section, post it.

Until then, the question HAS NOT been resolved - your excellent copying skills notwithstanding. If a clear answer had already been posted, the thread could be a short as 2 posts. In fact, contradictory posts have been made regarding the national rule. Some say the national federation does not allow spikes but I believe your copying of the relevant passage and not those posts to the contrary. Again, a national federation with no actual authority isn't particularly relevant.

By the way, my experience was exactly the same as, and echoes, the post immediately above mine and the next above that one. The story I tell of never seeing or even hearing about spike use in any CIF-affiliated event is similar to several posts in addition to the most recent 2 at the time of my posting. Do you have a objection to those posts too? My observations are apparently applicable to many. Several other posters witnessed similar events and posted to that effect. They partially explain the confusion.

Since the '70s and possibly earlier, the use of flats in CA high school running has been rampant and has partially led to the notion that CIF literally disallows spiked footwear. This is possibly a misunderstanding - we won't know until a statewide CIF rule is posted - but is a point made at times throughout the thread. In fact, it seems that the OP started the thread because: many runners in the state observe the entire field wearing flats, leading some or even most to believe that a State rule prohibits spike use. Yet, the OP suggests that no such rule exists - hence the title of the thread. My post was particularly relevant. They wear flats because everyone does and they never thought not to. Some have even thought spikes were not allowed. You are among them.

Every claim you make about my post has been rebutted: the relevance and applicability of my experience to other readers (some tell the same story); the understanding or lack thereof of what you posted (I read it, but it doesn't apply statewide); the significance or lack thereof of the particular races I experienced (there may be significant and prestigious events but I didn't attend them). Post the CIF rule. Solve the dilemma. Copying yet another Section rule, but not all of them, does not end the confusion.

Post it. Show us the rule. We know the Southern Section rule; that has been posted. Show us the statewide CIF rule. I'm not saying none exists but the OP is.

Even if you attend every race in every Section - and you don't - that doesn't prove the existence of any statewide rule. I agree in part with your post. Everyone wears flats. My earlier post says exactly that.

We already know the Southern Section rule. Let's see the rules governing the rest of the state. A single line quoting a CIF rulebook would end this. You story - exactly consistent with mine, by the way - didn't.

Why does there have to be a statewide rule if every single section has the rule? Name a section that doesn’t have the rule.

For San Diego Section: "The NFHS is the official rules book for the CIF and will govern all interscholastic Cross Country competition in the San Diego Section unless otherwise provided in the Green Book or bulletins." I read through the online Green Book and couldn't finding any information addressing it.

When I was in high school in the 1990s, no one wore spikes for cross country. We wore racing flats with little plastic nubbins to get a little bit of traction. As others have mentioned a lot of the courses had a least little sections of asphalt, so spikes didn't seem like a good idea, anyway.

I only remember shoe inspections during track. The synthetic tracks allowed only short spikes, but we used much longer spikes for the dirt tracks. It was always fun changing your spikes at a meet. You had to hope you could get those things out of the shoe without completely stripping them.

Inspections are bogus. Everyone should be allowed to run in spiked up, juiced Alphafly Next % 1000's. No spikes makes no sense (similar to the dumb ban on anabolic steroids). Let the times improve!

San Diego. I named one Section. Read the post in between this one and yours. According to the poster, they go by the national federation's rule. You can find it quoted on the last page by socalcush (who ironically thinks spikes are not allowed in CA). It limits spike length to 1 inch. Have to say I'm starting to side with the OP: no statewide CIF rule seems to exist.

No spikes is a Woodward Park rule.

Ok you win, wear spikes in the SD section. Their website barely works so there is nothing on it. Go crazy and wear spikes there but nowhere else.

ok, first off, i'll apologize for the snottiness and snootiness of my reply--this forum sometimes brings out the worst in me. but i'll repeat: the initial poster's questions were addressed clearly (i.e. spikes are not allowed in sections known by various repliers, such as the southern section and central section--i don't think it's any of our responsibilities to look up each section for confirmation; spikes are indeed allowed in other states in accordance with nfhs rules). you, on the other hand, were perhaps expecting a consensus among various sections that does not exist with pretty much anything in education or athletics--for example, divisions are decide using different parameters in different sports (such as strength of program), and even different sections use different parameters for divisions (such as x-c divisions depending on school size, though different sections can have their teams "run up" in bigger divisions based on strength of program--see what happened to mcfarland after the title runs).

so, i guess the clear answer really is that you'll never get a clear answer unless you want to look up each section's rulebook (no, i do NOT think spikes are illegal in california, as you erroneously state--they are illegal in my section and any race my teams run in other than the already mentioned footlocker/champs race. if we ran a race in another section, i'd look up the rules for it, but we don't, so i don't). i suppose another part of the clear answer is, at least in my opinion, that it's a good idea for each section to decide this, since there is variance with venues, weather, etc.

but my answer was clear at least in relation to the southern section where i coach, since that is what your opening comment was questioning, and clear in relation to people confusing nfhs rules and the rules for non-cif races like footlocker (the contradictory posts that you refer to).

still my story, and i'm still sticking to it...

cush

I recently moved to CA from OR and my team has tld me numerous times that I can't race in spikes (In OR everyone had spikes) and that its "illegal" to race in them in CA. So, I doubt the Original Poster is uniformed and I think your post was a bit too much for multiple from multiple schools a multiple meets have said the same as OP.

Whole field was in spikes last year at Eastbay.

You know that’s not a CIF race right?

in the middle of that race a whole squad of kids behind me all had metalblanks and everyone on the side line was yelling that they had spikes. i was too out of it to care

OP is under the impression that most people think CIF (CA HS federation) prohibits spikes in XC races they sanction. Comes in suggesting he doesn't think this is the case and opens the diacussion. The topic effectively becomes a question or challenge:

Show me the CIF rule prohibiting spiked footwear. (Spoiler: nobody does.)

Various Southern Cal posters insist that their Section (whatever that is....seems to be a geographical fraction of the State) DOES, in fact, ban spikes. One boastful poster claims to have run in the very prestigious Weltklasse. Whether or not this is true was not resolved, but doesn't need to be since it doesn't affect the answer to the question at hand.

A single Northern Cal poster claims spikes are not allowed in their Section either. Not everyone agrees. All agree that a particular course - called Woodward, perhaps - does NOT allow spikes but their rule applies nowhere else. All also agree that events not affiliated with nor sanctioned by CIF (ie. Footlocker) all allow spikes.

Various posters claim that no statewide rule exists. Claims are made to the effect that, although this is true, each Section bans them, so lack of State rule is moot. This last claim is not universally agreed upon.

Several posters claim they ran HS XC in CA, currently coach HS XC in CA, and are experts on this topic. None of them are really sure what the actual answer to the question - is there any rule prohibiting spiked shoes in State-sanctioned CA HS XC? - really is. To be fair, the OP didn't really ask. He simply claimed the ban is a widely-believed myth.

Pages of mudslinging, bragging, disparaging CA , attempting to discredit other posts, etc. etc. No resolution. Although the thread petered out,..... still a topic open for discussion.

I think the rule was created so that people don’t get spiked during a race

if orem and mountain view really wore spikes at woodbridge, that is upsetting. You will be flying at woodbridge with spikes on, and it is not fair to the other teams that were not wearing spikes.

AAA: Why are spikes NOT allowed at the state meet or INDEED not allowed anywhere?

Then change the way teams qualify for the state meet. Gee, is that really so hard?