"Medicine is broken" - that's your takeaway from the article? Are you serious Rojo? Nowhere in the article does it say the idea that running is bad for your knees is common in the medical community - just the opposite, it says that this is "popular opinion" i.e. the general public. If you actually clicked on the linked study, you'd see that 86% of health care professionals (not just doctors) believe that running is healthy for the knees, vs. 68% of the general public. Just to be clear, here was their conclusion:
More HCPs (healthcare professionals) perceived running as healthy for knees when compared with the PUB (general public). Most HCPs felt confident in providing evidence-based recommendations about running and knee health.
And let's say that it was actually the case that healthcare professionals did wrongly blame running for bad knees. That would provide next to no support for the incredibly broad claim that "medicine is broken." Besides, this kind of research is itself a product of the medical establishment.
As for the general public, much of that is based on hearsay. However, there is more to this because many have experienced tendonitis from running. By the time I was 19, my left knee had gotten bad enough that I couldn't use it to walk up stairs and the most I could run was a half mile before it would stiffen up and I wouldn't be able to bend it (same effect from using it in going up just a few stairs). It once took me a month to be able to walk normally again after walking up three steps. So, yes, running caused my knee problem. And it lasted fifteen years until I got the right physical therapy exercises to get over it. So, there are solutions for such running-caused knee problems.
Back when running shoes were, at best, a little less than what the most minimalist of shoes are now, runners with anything less than perfect biomechanics had shin splints and runner's knee. Other more serious injuries followed, they quit and everyone thought running was bad for you knees.
That's ridiculous. Tons of people that didn't have perfect biomechanics ran all the time, some at a high level. I agree that if your form is just a complete mess, shoes are far better now than they used to be.
As for the general public, much of that is based on hearsay. However, there is more to this because many have experienced tendonitis from running. By the time I was 19, my left knee had gotten bad enough that I couldn't use it to walk up stairs and the most I could run was a half mile before it would stiffen up and I wouldn't be able to bend it (same effect from using it in going up just a few stairs). It once took me a month to be able to walk normally again after walking up three steps. So, yes, running caused my knee problem. And it lasted fifteen years until I got the right physical therapy exercises to get over it. So, there are solutions for such running-caused knee problems.
Ding ding ding ding!!
Am I and this guy the only two posters on this thread with a brain??
People, seriously, let's see if we can figure out why there is this disconnect between these research articles that come out every few years declaring " it is a MYTH that running is hard on your knees!" and the fact that many, many people including many, many runners believe it IS hard on their knees and DO have a lot of knee pain after running a lot.. HMMMMM...HMMMMM..
Eureka... I figured it out:
The research is discussing osteoarthritis which is the result of the wearing out of the protective **cartilage** in the knee. It appears that running is not harmful overall to this cartilage and may even help it remain strong.
The pain in one's knees that many many Runners experience is due to the stress on and damage to the **patellar tendon** , i e patellar tendinosis, i.e. "RUNNER'S/JUMPER'S KNEE." Also runners experience ITB syndrome which is due to a ligament issue. Neither one of these have to do with arthritis or damaged Cartilage.
Understand? The research is discussing something different/unrelated to the pain that MANY Runners feel in their knees from running a lot.
Sooo..the great myth that running is not hard on or stressful to one's knees is a myth itself. It's still is for most people at some point. it just doesn't cause osteoarthritis.
Get It??? Was that really so hard to figure out?
And Rojo, medicine is not broken but apparently your brain is if you couldn't figure out why there was this disconnect between most Runners experiences and the research.
In my early 40's I started to use glucosamine, over 20 years ago, when my knees started to ache. 1 week later the ache was gone and have never had knee problems and continue to put in 50-60 mpw.
In my early 40's I started to use glucosamine, over 20 years ago, when my knees started to ache. 1 week later the ache was gone and have never had knee problems and continue to put in 50-60 mpw.
I think that the title of this article by rojo was sloppy; it works to drum up strong opinions, but turns the discussion into bashing Western medicine and tangential arguments.
If you want to start a thread with some name calling, ad hominem attacks, and discussion devolving into discussion of COVID vaccine conspiracy theories and why I never go to a doctor testimonials, after skimming a Washington Post article based on a research article that you didn't read, then great.
So good job, but not sure what the article has to do with medicine being broken; did a doctor prescribe you medication based on their incorrect belief that running is highly harmful to knees? Did you stop running because a doctor pressured you that it is bad for your knees only to read the Washington Post and realize that it is ok to run again?
Overall, medical literature shows that the risk of osteoarthritis of the knees is lower in runners than non-runners, but risk for osteoarthritis of the hips is higher for runners than non-runners. Take that for what it is worth.
Like you have any business posting about medicine. You believe the covid hoax and the vax scam. Shut up and and turn off your TV. You’re a disgrace for reading that nonsense and ignoring the publicly disclosed Pfizer data.
I am in my 50's and I get told by medical professionals all the time that I should transition to swimming to save my knees. These same people also advise me not to downhill ski so much!
Also, even though I was protected by natural immunity, they suggested that I take the experimental mRNA gene therapy!
Thank God my CO-PAY covers this nonsense that I freely choose to ignore.
Medicine is broken: Washington Post: Running doesn't hurt your knees, it helps them but more than 50% of docs think it hurts
“A lot of people think that running is bad” for knees and other joints, said Jean-Francois Esculier, a clinical professor of physical therapy at the University of British Columbia in Kelowna, who studies running.
But accumulating research, including studies from Esculier and others, generally shows the reverse. In these studies, distance running does not wreck most runners’ knees and, instead, fortifies them, leaving joints sturdier and less damaged than if someone had never taken up the sport...
An online survey (of docs) conducted by Esculier and his colleagues, its results published this year in the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, found more than half of the 2,514 respondents believed distance running damages knees.
There is surprisingly not much evidence base. Common sense doesnt work well here. Strength exercise is very commonly prescribed for arthritis and tendinitis as well with the idea of better mechanics and support around a joint. Although I would argue that running is not really a strength exercise. But, it is well known that repetition is bad for joints. It has been documented for many decades that people get arthritis in their elbow, or foot, or fingers of one hand...due to an occupation that required repetitive movements. So, I see it both ways. Certainly a bad knee later in life is horrible reason to not run, the benefit far outweighs risks and a knee is probably the easiest thing to replace. Also, ballistic and /or traumatic injures are in fact known to cause DJD later in life (post traumatic), so soccer, football, BBall etc... are not healthier replacements. But, academically, I think its a tough sell to say that adding 10-20K cycles of impact on your joint per day for decades doesnt have some wear and tear effect? I mean why do we think weighing 400lbs is bad for you knees? Wear and tear!
Back when running shoes were, at best, a little less than what the most minimalist of shoes are now, runners with anything less than perfect biomechanics had shin splints and runner's knee. Other more serious injuries followed, they quit and everyone thought running was bad for you knees.
That's ridiculous. Tons of people that didn't have perfect biomechanics ran all the time, some at a high level. I agree that if your form is just a complete mess, shoes are far better now than they used to be.
It's not ridiculous you dolt. I lived through it. I didn't say it was absolute for everyone.
There was no support at all in shoes back in the 60's and 70's. So many people quit (especially after high school) because their knees, shins, hurt that people thought it was bad for your knees.
I've been running for 51 years and I STILL have people telling me how they can't believe I can still walk and that my knees must hurt.
I'm at my PT guy yesterday, working on a case of Plantar Faciitus. He told me, "It's been proven that running more than 25mpw is bad for your heart, joints."
He cited the Danish study of a few years back. When I got home, I pulled up the NYTimes article, debunking that study. Did I send the article over to my PT? NO! -- he's a nice guy who is helping me. No need to ruin the relationship.
Medicine sure is broken... But between the mass promotion of polyunsaturated seed oil consumption, the mass promotion of barely-tested new technologies as “safe and effective”, the mass promotion of addictive opioids, the over- prescription of antibiotics, and the financial bilking of everyone through price fixing / socialized insurance plans, a misconception about knee injuries is what illicit thus response?
amazing what PEDs can do. When you take a little extra some parts of your body develop faster than others causing issues on the parts that have not yet developed. A lot of strange injuries in baseball back in the steroid error for this exact reason.
I know a lot of people with knee replacements, and none of them were consistent runners. Although most people are not consistent runners, so that would be expected. But if it came out that most people who need knee replacements were runners that would be significant, but that's not true.
Do people who have averaged, say 15+ miles per week, for most of their adulthood need knee replacements at a higher or lower rate than the general population?
"Your health is your own responsibility and all the "science" trusters out there want to absolve themselves of the responsibility of their life and place their fate in the hands of someone they don't know."
Those darn science trusters, they ruin everything. Why can't we just all how our own theories on how things work?
I know a lot of people with knee replacements, and none of them were consistent runners. Although most people are not consistent runners, so that would be expected. But if it came out that most people who need knee replacements were runners that would be significant, but that's not true.
Do people who have averaged, say 15+ miles per week, for most of their adulthood need knee replacements at a higher or lower rate than the general population?
Once again the point that everyone seems to be ignoring is there are two separate issues at hand here:
1] A runners more likely to have knee pain due to osteoarthritis? Answer: probably not, in fact they are probably less likely.
2] is it very common for runners especially as they age and or do lots of miles for many years to develop painful knees due to patellar tendinosis? Answer: YES.
In the long term running is absolutely hard on your knees [ of course there are exceptions of people who never get injured] just not in the way this research is studying.
No one is able to understand that two different, but similar [ both relate to knee pain/damage], things can be true at the same time? Oy vay.
So many middle-aged hobby joggers [ and serious runners too] switch to walking or cycling or swimming at some point because running causes them too much knee pain. it may not be osteoarthritis. it is likely the patellar tendinosis.
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