I have no idea what his cadence is during a 1500m. It probably fluctuates because he's a sit and kick guy.
Thanks for the info. To truly answer your original question, I looked back to confirm the few times I forgot to wear my strap, and it was precisely the cadence I was running.
173 spm seems a little on the low side for 5k race pace which seems to be what the workout was targetting. If you want to increase stride efficiency, consider:
+1 I would think a highschooler would be >180 when running 800's I dont understand why a few people are just saying Let him run naturally without first getting more details.
How tall is he? What shoes is he using? Is the coach experienced and what does he say about the kid's form in general?
173 spm seems a little on the low side for 5k race pace which seems to be what the workout was targetting. If you want to increase stride efficiency, consider:
+1 I would think a highschooler would be >180 when running 800's I dont understand why a few people are just saying Let him run naturally without first getting more details.
How tall is he? What shoes is he using? Is the coach experienced and what does he say about the kid's form in general?
1)5'8
2) This workout was run on the track in Vaporflys.
3a) Yes. I can say I feel like I'm fairly experienced at this stuff. I've been coaching my two older kids for close to eight years. I ran for a SEC team in college. My high school team made state all four years. My high school coach was a good marathon/ultra marathon guy.
3b) I would say my kid has very good form. We do lots of strides and drills. Stride looks strong and powerful. The turnover just hasn't passed the eyeball test lately. That's when I started checking the Garmin/Strava stats.
2) This workout was run on the track in Vaporflys.
3a) Yes. I can say I feel like I'm fairly experienced at this stuff. I've been coaching my two older kids for close to eight years. I ran for a SEC team in college. My high school team made state all four years. My high school coach was a good marathon/ultra marathon guy.
3b) I would say my kid has very good form. We do lots of strides and drills. Stride looks strong and powerful. The turnover just hasn't passed the eyeball test lately. That's when I started checking the Garmin/Strava stats.
If the data really is accurate, and he's already doing 6.1' steps at 5 minute/mile pace, which I assume is close to his 4K VCP race pace, to answer your other question, you shouldn't be too concerned, as he's young and still developing. That being said, he's running out of step real estate, as elites at that height top out at 6.2' for marathon pace, 6.67' for 5k pace, 7' for mile pace, and 7.75' for 100m (varies greatly, obviously - Webb was ~213/6.55' for his mile record and Geb at almost the same exact pace for his indoor 1500m best was ~207/6.75'). Gradually increasing the cadence at his 1500m-5k race pace is where most of the improvement is going to come from. Since he just had a growth spurt, I wouldn't sweat it too much though, as messing with cadence can be very tricky and counterproductive, especially when making big changes.
Hey Steven, your instagram shows how unbelievably narcissistic and toxic of a parent you are. Good luck in 15 years when neither of your children want anything to do with you.
Hey Steven, your instagram shows how unbelievably narcissistic and toxic of a parent you are. Good luck in 15 years when neither of your children want anything to do with you.
Thanks bro.
The Instagram is just for fun. My facebook page is where the real details are at.
2) This workout was run on the track in Vaporflys.
3a) Yes. I can say I feel like I'm fairly experienced at this stuff. I've been coaching my two older kids for close to eight years. I ran for a SEC team in college. My high school team made state all four years. My high school coach was a good marathon/ultra marathon guy.
3b) I would say my kid has very good form. We do lots of strides and drills. Stride looks strong and powerful. The turnover just hasn't passed the eyeball test lately. That's when I started checking the Garmin/Strava stats.
If the data really is accurate, and he's already doing 6.1' steps at 5 minute/mile pace, which I assume is close to his 4K VCP race pace, to answer your other question, you shouldn't be too concerned, as he's young and still developing. That being said, he's running out of step real estate, as elites at that height top out at 6.2' for marathon pace, 6.67' for 5k pace, 7' for mile pace, and 7.75' for 100m (varies greatly, obviously - Webb was ~213/6.55' for his mile record and Geb at almost the same exact pace for his indoor 1500m best was ~207/6.75'). Gradually increasing the cadence at his 1500m-5k race pace is where most of the improvement is going to come from. Since he just had a growth spurt, I wouldn't sweat it too much though, as messing with cadence can be very tricky and counterproductive, especially when making big changes.
At VCP he ran 13:59. That's about 5:40/mile. He won fairly easily so he didn't push much on the hills in the woods. I did see a Strava segment where he finished the last 1000 meters in 4:58/mile pace. Does that change any of your calculations?
Also the winner of the 15-16 year old 3000 at 2022 AAU indoors was not the 14 year old champ from 2021.
Well you can't read. But I'll bet your mom's left nut that the 2021 AAU Indoor 14 year old boy 1500m and 3000m winner is also the 2022 USATF Indoor 15-16 3000m winner.
Didn't get to run 2022 AAU indoor because the family got hit with COVID two weeks before.
The AAU videos are on Flotrack and the USATF race is on USATF.tv.
Huh? You claimed winning the 2022 indoor title. Now you say didn’t race? Dad/coach sure talks like a person with a glowing personality though. Loser.
Manbearpig15 wrote: vegan69 wrote: 8/10, had me until five national championships and nine time All-American. Also, who uploads an 800 to Strava? What's his VO2 max? There's always that one guy on here like this. Here you go... 2020 AAU outdoor track 3000m 2020 AAU cross country 2021 AAU indoor 1500m (meet record) 2021 AAU indoor 3000m (meet record) 2022 USATF indoor 3000m Now can we get back to people who can give some advice on increasing turnover since it is a running message board?
At VCP he ran 13:59. That's about 5:40/mile. He won fairly easily so he didn't push much on the hills in the woods. I did see a Strava segment where he finished the last 1000 meters in 4:58/mile pace. Does that change any of your calculations?
It would as the 6.1' / 173 is just for the 800s. The only time I've used Strava is to view Joshua Cheptegai's cadence for his 5000m record, so I didn't realize it seems to just do it for the splits (don't know if there's more data in there). You might want to also upload the data to Garmin, as you can see what your cadence is at 5sec intervals (so you can see if that 4:58/mile at the end of VCP is still at ~173). You probably shouldn't go crazy with this cadence stuff, though.
180 spm isn't some mythical gold standard. The science behind it is flimsy. Everyone is built differently and has different optimal stride rates/lengths. More steps per minute doesn't magically give you speed - you have to compensate by taking shorter strides, and the result may or may not be faster or any better for your son.
Your son needs a coach. Let the coach do his job.
Your son needs a dad. Stick to your job. If your son is feeling off in a workout and isn't having a great season, you can help by showing support, sympathy and confidence. Or you can compound the problem and create new ones by expressing frustration and disappointment.
I've been coaching him for eight years. I think we're doing fine. Five national championships and nine time All-American seems like a decent result so far.
As far as cross country coaches at the local school - one doesn't coach weekends and the other is a football coach with an 0-7 football head coaching record that thinks CrossFit training is cross country training. I'm not letting my kid near that. They have one kid at 19 minutes and everyone else is 23+ minutes.
I love that your narcissism led you to take "you're a bad coach" from colder and wiser's post. That wasn't what he was telling you.
At VCP he ran 13:59. That's about 5:40/mile. He won fairly easily so he didn't push much on the hills in the woods. I did see a Strava segment where he finished the last 1000 meters in 4:58/mile pace. Does that change any of your calculations?
Also, if I figured out who your kid is, and he really is running a 29.11 last 200m in a 3000m, you probably shouldn't worry about cadence. He's not taking 7.82' steps at 173 to run that.
At VCP he ran 13:59. That's about 5:40/mile. He won fairly easily so he didn't push much on the hills in the woods. I did see a Strava segment where he finished the last 1000 meters in 4:58/mile pace. Does that change any of your calculations?
Also, if I figured out who your kid is, and he really is running a 29.11 last 200m in a 3000m, you probably shouldn't worry about cadence. He's not taking 7.82' steps at 173 to run that.
Best of luck with everything.
You see that video? Sometimes he does crazy things like that. Personally I like the 59.64 final 400m he ran to close out his 1500m PR.
