I think weightlifting can do big things for running, but I think the emphasis on power is the wrong mindset.
You have to view weightlifting as practice in exercising each muscle properly. The best thing most runners can gain from weightlifting is improving muscle function and control. I didn't use my glutes properly while running until I started doing proper squats and being able to sit in a 'asian squat' position comfortably. The amount of 'power' you can generate is so much less important than the ability to access the muscle properly (of course, accessing the muscle will allow you to lift heavier, generate more power, etc). In this way if you never lifted you can get way better by doing body weight exercises/lower weights then you can by lifting heavy stuff in weird ways.
I would say to approach weightlifting as a "study of how muscles work" more than "let's get super tired and push myself" approach. If you can get to a point where you can isolate and physically understand how every major muscle works in your body, your running will surely improve.
I think weightlifting can do big things for running, but I think the emphasis on power is the wrong mindset.
You have to view weightlifting as practice in exercising each muscle properly. The best thing most runners can gain from weightlifting is improving muscle function and control. I didn't use my glutes properly while running until I started doing proper squats and being able to sit in a 'asian squat' position comfortably. The amount of 'power' you can generate is so much less important than the ability to access the muscle properly (of course, accessing the muscle will allow you to lift heavier, generate more power, etc). In this way if you never lifted you can get way better by doing body weight exercises/lower weights then you can by lifting heavy stuff in weird ways.
I would say to approach weightlifting as a "study of how muscles work" more than "let's get super tired and push myself" approach. If you can get to a point where you can isolate and physically understand how every major muscle works in your body, your running will surely improve.
Please explain how improving what "muscle function and control," the purpose of "accessing the muscle properly," and how these are different from one's ultimate goal on trying to get more power out of your legs? I don't think these are as different as you think.
Sit in a squat position for 10 minutes straight. If you have properly functioning muscles this actually isn't difficult and should be comfortable. It doesn't have much to do with power, but rather control over supporting your body properly. This is the type of work that will primarily help running. Adding 5 pounds of muscle to your chest won't help you get faster - but figuring how to generate power from your chest when you need to kick will - that isn't a strength thing, it is a control thing. You should be able to thing and control - "Ok I need to start driving with my glutes, or my back muscles" and be able to make that happen immediately. That doesn't come from heavy weights - it comes from a focused approach on the mental aspect of using your muscles.
Sit in a squat position for 10 minutes straight. If you have properly functioning muscles this actually isn't difficult and should be comfortable. It doesn't have much to do with power, but rather control over supporting your body properly. This is the type of work that will primarily help running. Adding 5 pounds of muscle to your chest won't help you get faster - but figuring how to generate power from your chest when you need to kick will - that isn't a strength thing, it is a control thing. You should be able to thing and control - "Ok I need to start driving with my glutes, or my back muscles" and be able to make that happen immediately. That doesn't come from heavy weights - it comes from a focused approach on the mental aspect of using your muscles.
You're literally just describing mobility. Yes, mobility is a precursor to strength and strength is a precursor to power.
Sit in a squat position for 10 minutes straight. If you have properly functioning muscles this actually isn't difficult and should be comfortable. It doesn't have much to do with power, but rather control over supporting your body properly. This is the type of work that will primarily help running. Adding 5 pounds of muscle to your chest won't help you get faster - but figuring how to generate power from your chest when you need to kick will - that isn't a strength thing, it is a control thing. You should be able to thing and control - "Ok I need to start driving with my glutes, or my back muscles" and be able to make that happen immediately. That doesn't come from heavy weights - it comes from a focused approach on the mental aspect of using your muscles.
First of all, I don't know if anyone has been pushing for bench press that hard here - personally ,I've only been advocating for squats, deadlifts, and cleans (emphasis on the first two lifts) - so the "adding 5 pounds of muscle to your chest" isn't really applicable. But if you're worried about putting on weight (gasp!), runners have to realize you have to EAT (read: caloric surplus) to put on weight. If you're running a decent amount (at least 40-50 miles/week for starters), it is going to be really, really hard to put on mass since you're already in the hole calorically. Again, if you just run, lift, and eat as you normally do, you're not going to get bigger.
Also to note, sitting in a squat position for 10 minutes doesn't really demonstrate anything other than you can sit in a squat position and your knees can take the extended flexion stress (which doesn't mean anything for running, btw). Again, not really applicable to what we are discussing.
I'm also struggling to understand this "control" thing - are we talking muscle coordination? One thing I think you are failing to understand is that one of (if not the primary) benefits of lifting for runners is the effects on the central nervous system. Most runners aren't going to move past a novice linear progression, so most of their strength increases through lifting is going to come from improvements in their central nervous system. Through heavy lifting, their CNS learns to recruit and fire muscles fibers more effectively and efficiently. I think this is the "control" thing you are talking about since the CNS and muscles are working better together to be able to apply more force into the ground (improved running economy and speed) while coordinating to "support" the body better. There is tons of sports scientific literature to support this, specifically on the effects on running.
Great reply and I agree this isn't about bench press it is about squats, deadlifts and other lower body focused exercises.
There are also many different methods of weight lifting. People who want really large bulging muscles often do a tremendous amount of reps at a lower weight vs. just focused on pure strength which would be lower reps at a higher rate. There are other variables but latter will give you strength with much less bulk, the former strength with much more bulk. You can have two people who both bench 240 and one has a much bigger chest due to the type of workouts they do.
Do you know your body fat percentage? Long slow distance running only, most likely a male runner will be stuck in (10 to 15)% body fat range. I don't want to sound mean but you are physically weak for a male. I doubt you are built like a light heavy weight boxer. If you want to get your body fat into (5 to 7 1/2)% range, total body weight training. I don't know how much weight training is correlated to 5000m & 10000m performance but Mo Farah began looking like a feather weight professional boxer when he began winning Olympic & W.C. medals. When M. Farah was in his early twenties, he looked like the typical let'srun skinny fat guy, in (10 to 15)% body fat range. In M. Farah's late twenties, he began total body weight training. I cannot even believe we are debating this for 100m to 800m athletes. Most on here race 5000m to ultras, so ... . If you want to listen to skinny fat guys brag about being able to race sub-1:50 800m without lifting, that's your choice. I thought almost all college coaches have their 400m & 800m gals & guys lifting.
Please, don't ever give your opinion on what body fat percentage you think someone should be again.
5-7.5% body fat? You either don't know what you are talking about/insane.
Also, being 10-15% body fat does not make someone "skinny fat".
I'm probably about 20% body fat and look in better shape than most 10-15% people, not that it matters. I definitely look in better shape and can out perform 99% of people near 5% because that sounds like malnourishment to me.
I weigh 230lbs and most people are surprised I'm over 200lbs, everyone calls me skinny. The point being, there's a lot of variation in people's body composition and using one metric to define someone is asinine.
Sit in a squat position for 10 minutes straight. If you have properly functioning muscles this actually isn't difficult and should be comfortable. It doesn't have much to do with power, but rather control over supporting your body properly. This is the type of work that will primarily help running. Adding 5 pounds of muscle to your chest won't help you get faster - but figuring how to generate power from your chest when you need to kick will - that isn't a strength thing, it is a control thing. You should be able to thing and control - "Ok I need to start driving with my glutes, or my back muscles" and be able to make that happen immediately. That doesn't come from heavy weights - it comes from a focused approach on the mental aspect of using your muscles.
Sitting slouched over in an asian squat isn't what you think it is, lol.
I’m 6 2 160lb and maybe squatting 185 for a couple reps, but it hurts my back and shoulders a bit cause I’m so skinny it’s right on bone. And I’m not even going to mention how much I can bench. It’s not good
Am 6’1” and barely 150 lbs, and that is after I recently gained 10 pounds by beginning weight lifting, having worked my way up to 175-180 lbs for 5 reps. I used to squat with the foam pad for shoulder protection earlier because it made my shoulder “shelf” sore, but what I realized is that it’s just a matter of getting used to the raw bar, and it starts to not hurt. Go lower in weights, as low as it takes to feel comfortable and work your way up. The back shoulder area just starts to lose some sensation over time, like if I scratch myself where I place the bar, the skin feels half dead compared to scratching elsewhere on the back. It’s also better for squatting form to squat with an unpadded bar, especially if you are tall as taller folks (longer femured fold to be precise) already have to lean their backs more forward for balance, so a pad only makes it worse.
Do you know your body fat percentage? Long slow distance running only, most likely a male runner will be stuck in (10 to 15)% body fat range. I don't want to sound mean but you are physically weak for a male. I doubt you are built like a light heavy weight boxer. If you want to get your body fat into (5 to 7 1/2)% range, total body weight training. I don't know how much weight training is correlated to 5000m & 10000m performance but Mo Farah began looking like a feather weight professional boxer when he began winning Olympic & W.C. medals. When M. Farah was in his early twenties, he looked like the typical let'srun skinny fat guy, in (10 to 15)% body fat range. In M. Farah's late twenties, he began total body weight training. I cannot even believe we are debating this for 100m to 800m athletes. Most on here race 5000m to ultras, so ... . If you want to listen to skinny fat guys brag about being able to race sub-1:50 800m without lifting, that's your choice. I thought almost all college coaches have their 400m & 800m gals & guys lifting.
Please, don't ever give your opinion on what body fat percentage you think someone should be again.
5-7.5% body fat? You either don't know what you are talking about/insane.
Also, being 10-15% body fat does not make someone "skinny fat".
I'm probably about 20% body fat and look in better shape than most 10-15% people, not that it matters. I definitely look in better shape and can out perform 99% of people near 5% because that sounds like malnourishment to me.
I weigh 230lbs and most people are surprised I'm over 200lbs, everyone calls me skinny. The point being, there's a lot of variation in people's body composition and using one metric to define someone is asinine.
If you are 230 lbs. with over 20% body fat, in a boxing ring you would not last 3 round with me fella.
Please, don't ever give your opinion on what body fat percentage you think someone should be again.
5-7.5% body fat? You either don't know what you are talking about/insane.
Also, being 10-15% body fat does not make someone "skinny fat".
I'm probably about 20% body fat and look in better shape than most 10-15% people, not that it matters. I definitely look in better shape and can out perform 99% of people near 5% because that sounds like malnourishment to me.
I weigh 230lbs and most people are surprised I'm over 200lbs, everyone calls me skinny. The point being, there's a lot of variation in people's body composition and using one metric to define someone is asinine.
If you are 230 lbs. with over 20% body fat, in a boxing ring you would not last 3 round with me fella.
Are you talking just to Hurno or do you believe you can defeat any heavy weight who is over 20% body fat?
If you are 230 lbs. with over 20% body fat, in a boxing ring you would not last 3 round with me fella.
Are you talking just to Hurno or do you believe you can defeat any heavy weight who is over 20% body fat?
A professional heavyweight? No! I tried to schedule an exhibition fight with a well know welterweight year ago. No upside for him I was told. I spared with a ranked heavyweight when I was in my early twenties as a welterweight. Doctors would not clear me to fight anyway now. Being 100% serious. I never would box a heavyweight. I would never box any heavier than welterweight.
The degree to which you get faster by weightlifting is right between none and a little. I'd still say you should do it for other benefits, but it won't help much with that.
Why so much hate on this response?
a measly 120lb deadlift isn’t going to unlock any power. The impact force from running is several times body weight.
weights might provide more mental confidence for a skinny individual. Kids start lifting then suddenly they stand up straight and walk with their hands outside their pockets. Its self esteem magic. They feel badass and that translates into great workouts, better grades, and so on.
Speed or endurance or volume are always the answer. Run for an hour or so every day and mix in a few workouts and watch your running potential reveal itself.