Three more Kenyan runners busted

Namecalling is a childlike strategy to avoid a discussion with merits.

Whereabouts failures are administrative failures and coordination failures. It means athletes can be suspended without establishing the presence or use of a banned substance or method.

I would downvote Christopher Kelsall's article too. It is terrible journalism, mixing in his own poorly researched/supported editorial opinions with a few facts.

When it comes to Kenya and doping, ARD is also terrible journalism held together by dramatic re-enactments and innuendo.

ARD/Seppelt have done half a dozen or so documentaries in Kenya, with virtually nothing to show for it -- no new names of ringleader doctors or top athletes, or for that matter, agents, linked to doping elite athletes. On the contrary, they setup pseudo-sting operations, offering poor people money, or dramatic enactments with them buying drugs themelves at a pharmacy. It appears that they even planted the empty boxes of EPO they just bought from the pharmacy on camera in the trash of a training camp.

Seppelt interviewed Kisorio at the time, and it led nowhere. We have no names of any doctors or other athletes allegedly doped, and it triggered no further investigations and led to no further busts. All we have are a few statements where Kisorio repeats what someone told him before taking his money.

Compare that to Russia, where we have the names of dozens of coaches, hundreds of athletes, many politicians, and investigations leading to hundreds of athletes and coaches being banned.

If there is something really going on in Kenya, then ARD/Seppelt must be really bad investigative journalists.

But you are. Admit it, take that load off your back, free yourself and you'll be happy (or less miserable?)

So doping is ok if you're not a professional? I doubt WADA takes that view.

What can be guaranteed here is the chorus of excuses for doping violations. Doping may be acknowledged to exist in sport but it is never those who have been caught.

It might be a good quote but not necessarily true. A lot of those 2:07 type Kenyans turn up at second tier marathons and road races and winning money.

Has Coeovett ever posted about British drug cheats Alan Wells, Kelly Holmes, Linford Christie, Dwayne Chambers, Paula Radcliffe, Mo Farah?

Dr. Canova,

With all due respect, what do you mean?

That line from Dr. Canova made me chuckle. I thought about it and I agreed with it.

Nobody says doping is ok : athletes caught doped are doped always, if their PB is 2:03 or 2:20 it's the same offense, deserving the same sanction.

But we are speaking about WHEREABOUTS, and I explained the difference of mentality. Since I don't think you are not able to read, I have to think you are prisoner of your stereotypes, and don't want to analyse the different aspects of the problem, because in your mind your idea can't change, also if there are different evidences (that you refuse to consider).

At first I agreed with it but then thought of all the second tier road races that Kenyans have won here. Maybe that has changed since COVID and a lot of them have had to be farmers.

Renato,

Sure a 2:09 marathon runner in Kenya is just a farmer. All the more reason to dope. To get ahead, to not be a farmer.

You have said that EPO doesn't work on East Africans. They have been caught taking EPO and other performance enhancing drugs. When WADA/AIU etc were finally able to do local testing, athletes were getting caught and some of the very biggest names.

You can excuse a couple of "farmers" if you want, but what about the other approximate 80 athletes who have been suspended? All innocent farmers?

When some of these athletes get popped it is often when they are 28-32 and suddenly improve from farmer-level to elite level.

I have a lot of respect for your training knowledge and your knowledge of the sport. But you continue to baffle me with your logic regarding Kenyans doping/not doping.

Now they are just farmers....before PEDs didn't work on them. What I would like to know is how did you find out that PEDs don't work on East Africans?

Rubbish.

A cheat is a cheat.

There are no cultural adjustments among doping.

No one asks why, they only check the samples.

You are unravelling into a raving lunatic. What has WADA got over forums?

You are not being down voted for being anti doping, it is because of your perpetual and one sided carry on. I am an anti doper, very few Aussies have been busted, so there is no doping culture here, but I am down voting you.

Don't you get the message, or go take your pills

I was not aware that Renato Canova had a doctorate in sport studies or related fields? Perhaps someone who knows him well might confirm? If Renato does indeed have a doctorate or PhD, this means that he is a very modest man because he never refers to himself as Dr. Canova.

Actually partly because of the super shoes a 2:07 marathoner might indeed be a farmer. I am not sure what is happening in Japan but the same may soon be true there. A 2:07 marathoner may be a teacher or what have you…

Jesus relax man. You're taking to a human being.

I think it's interesting if it's actually being administered by official medical staff.

Seems like you should be better informed. Here are some tips to unbaffle you:

- this story is about 3 "whereabouts failures. Whereabouts failures are not the same as taking banned (potentially performance enhancing) substances

- Renato did not say "EPO doesn't work on East Africans", but something much more specific; later he broadened that to include non-East Africans like Sondre Moen, who train for an extended period at high altitude, after Sondre Moen ran a couple 2:06 marathons

- It is a popular belief that EPO works on East Africans like everyone else, but this just kicks the can down the road: no one has yet demonstrated it works on the best of everyone else

- If anything, the high altitude would already enable much of the expected benefit by triggering EPO production naturally -- adding more EPO would be marginal at best; it should observably work better on sea-level athletes than altitude based athletes

- Getting caught taking EPO doesn't mean it worked, just that someone believed it would

- In a WADA study, we find that the 80 athletes are due to many factors, like lack of awareness of anti-doping obligations on the part of the athlete and/or the local doctor, and sometimes exploitation from local doctors and pharmacists, but mostly because there are so many Kenyans competing; according to a couple of sources, as a percentage, Kenyan blood doping appears to be about the global average

- In a WADA study, many of the busts, by far, are for nandrolone, and Kenyan farmers do not routinely castrate their pigs, nor have USDA inspectors, nor the resources to spend on legal and scientific defenses

- Renato has re-clarified his statements and answered your questions many times over. Seems like you should already know this. For example, he has conceced many times that he doesn't know if PEDs would help, because he doesn't use them, but believes that it is still possible to break world records without them

- Motivated by the popular claim that EPO works on East Africans like everyone else, I concluded that maybe EPO theoreticallly works, but EPO didn't seem to observably work for the fastest non-Africans, at least in the last 30 years (or at most, for very few by very little). I determined this by looking at aggregated historical performance data, without coaching elite runners, and/or using PEDs on anyone. The results reminded me of a story about the Emporer's clothes.