I think it's a little strange if it's an all the time thing & if the athletes don't find it super helpful. It sounds like the coach is still trying to get better/live out their glory days. I feel like it's more common to get that behavior from an assistant coach. & it's less weird that way because the assistant has a more defined role & is more/less a team member, keeps the pulse of the team, etc.
I was an assistant at a D3 pre-COVID & would hop in for some easy miles with some of the guys on my easy days. It was maybe once or twice a week. I wasn't joining them for their workouts & I wasn't gonna hop into any races we were at. It's important athletes don't feel like they have someone policing them on their daily runs. Feel like I struck a good balance where I could do some coaching/mentoring when I would do an easy run with them.
I don't think there's a good way to provide feedback without being direct so either talk to the coach or don't. You gotta do what you think is best.
I agree with the posters saying the long/easy runs are time for the kids to bs with each other and bond. talk about girls, guys, movies, whatever. Stuff that would be inappropriate around coaches/teachers.
I do run with my kids on occasion, but I want them to have this time to themselves for the majority of the time.
I do have most of my best talks with my athletes during these runs too, so they are useful on occasion. It's a good time to have a 20 minute conversation with a kid about where they are now, where they're going, how they rank, how they're competing, why we are doing workouts, etc. When you are talking to 20-60 kids of varying levels, it's tough to get in those meaningful conversations otherwise.
Exactly! I coach at a school that had no real culture because the prior coach had destroyed it. My first two years was developing the boys culture, because they had a full team, but we only had three girls. When I determined that it was time to fix the culture of the girls team, I took a hard working freshman girl, and we ran every run that summer together, except for workouts. In those runs, I explained everything I could to her about how to train, how to race, and how to lead the rest of the girls. The next year, we added three other girls, and repeated it. By then, they were too fast for me, as I was aging, and they were improving. Five years later, we have a very respectable girls team, and our guys are frequent flyers at the state meet. It would not have happened without all of those long training runs.
On a side note, nobody thinks it is odd for the basketball coach or the other coaches to get involved in practices. Baseball and softball coaches hit fielding practice. Basketball coaches demonstrate pick and roll, and other stuff. How do we coach them if we are not with them? How do we keep from being negligent, if we just send them off and do not supervise them? It is wrong to try to show them up on every workout, but demonstrating the pace or intensity is not out of line, even if the prudes like flagpole disagree.
I try and limit the amount of easy runs I do the team to about 1 a week, or switch it up and run with different kids on different days. I think it's important to let the kids run on their own and have the more age-apropriate conversations that they don't feel comfortable having around adults.
That said, I do think you can coach a little better when running with them. You can see mechanics change over the course of the run, and help set apropriate paces.
As far as workouts go, I basically never workout with the team in middle of the XC or track season. Too many kids to be able to coach effectively. But for off-season training, with a smaller, more comitted core, I hop in workouts pretty often.
If you're coaching a tempo on a loop, what's more effective? Standing in the same spot checking splits and yelling "speed up" or "slow down"? Or helping set a pace, and being able to monitor the RPE of the athletes throughout the whole session?
I was an assistant cross country and track coach at the High School level. The head coach either road a bike or just waited at the start/stop point in cross, and stop watched in track.
I ran all the runs with the kids. Easy, workouts, everything. I love running and competing. If I can run with the kids, teach them pacing and how to compete, I think that is a benefit for everyone. On easy runs I would start at the back and move my way up just talking to everyone, seeing how they were feeling, offering advice, etc. Sometimes I would not catch the faster kids, but sometimes I would. In workouts, I would hang out in the middle and towards the front. I tried to finish as fast as I could and won sometimes, sometimes not as I was old and the kids were faster. No one had an issue with it, in fact they all thought it was pretty cool that I still ran and ran with them.
If situations like this are a problem for you, I would recommend seeking therapy. Your situation may be different. If anything coming from the coach such as trash talking, bullying or anything else not uplifting/teaching goes on, I can see an issue with that.
I agree with the posters saying the long/easy runs are time for the kids to bs with each other and bond. talk about girls, guys, movies, whatever. Stuff that would be inappropriate around coaches/teachers.
I do run with my kids on occasion, but I want them to have this time to themselves for the majority of the time.
I do have most of my best talks with my athletes during these runs too, so they are useful on occasion. It's a good time to have a 20 minute conversation with a kid about where they are now, where they're going, how they rank, how they're competing, why we are doing workouts, etc. When you are talking to 20-60 kids of varying levels, it's tough to get in those meaningful conversations otherwise.
Exactly! I coach at a school that had no real culture because the prior coach had destroyed it. My first two years was developing the boys culture, because they had a full team, but we only had three girls. When I determined that it was time to fix the culture of the girls team, I took a hard working freshman girl, and we ran every run that summer together, except for workouts. In those runs, I explained everything I could to her about how to train, how to race, and how to lead the rest of the girls. The next year, we added three other girls, and repeated it. By then, they were too fast for me, as I was aging, and they were improving. Five years later, we have a very respectable girls team, and our guys are frequent flyers at the state meet. It would not have happened without all of those long training runs.
On a side note, nobody thinks it is odd for the basketball coach or the other coaches to get involved in practices. Baseball and softball coaches hit fielding practice. Basketball coaches demonstrate pick and roll, and other stuff. How do we coach them if we are not with them? How do we keep from being negligent, if we just send them off and do not supervise them? It is wrong to try to show them up on every workout, but demonstrating the pace or intensity is not out of line, even if the prudes like flagpole disagree.
Basketball coaches done join practice scrimmages. Baseball coaches don't go play the field or face live pitching in practice. Your comparisons show that you are a moron.
I think it's totally fine for a coach to run with the team during recovery days or long runs. It's a good opportunity to bond with the team, but there is also a balance. It shouldn't be an everyday thing, and it especially shouldn't happen during an actual workout. A workout should be where the athletes work to improve their fitness, not where a coach "shows off" his fitness.
This sounds like a good opportunity to have a "players only" meeting and see how the rest of your team feels. If you all agree that it's weird, nicely mention it to the coach and I'm sure he'll understand. Not a big deal, but also not something you guys should just ignore.
I'm surprised nobody has brought up legality issues. At the couple high schools I've assistant coached at, someone always had to go along on off base runs, either running or biking. Usually one coach was up near the front, the other in the back and another back at the school.
A lot of ppl saying they do workouts with their athletes have hs age athletes. This is a D1 college. Long runs are fine, I don’t think anyone is debating that. But why are you right next to me in my workouts? Like come on man. Coaching isn’t just about holding a stopwatch. Watch how we’re running, landing, arm swing. You can’t do that if you’re with us trying to beat us to the line. It’s not that difficult. We’re also not talking about the occasional workout or rep to show you still have it. That’s fine
I would argue the opposite. I'll occasionally hop in the end of some long runs to help them hit paces, but easy runs are typically filled with conservations I may not want to hear and that's their time to chill out and bond. I think hopping in some workouts allows for some valuable coaching time that can't be achieved as easily on the sidelines. (Although I still agree it shouldn't be all the time, but when used appropriately, it can aid your coaching).
- Threshold: When you're running alongside someone, you get a great sense of their rhythm, form, and breathing. Through their breathing rate, I can fairly accurately tell when they cross their threshold.
-Running in a pack: Some athletes struggle holding their position. For instance, a runner may continually drift into the middle of lane on the straight-away, or even a turn. When they're two feet in front of me, I immediately notice, and pass them on the inside. Then they get instant feedback and it's a teachable moment.
-Drafting: Some athletes don't like to draft too closely. (Drives me nuts). When I tell them this, they typically don't change much because they don't want to accidently trip their teammates. But they're more willing to potentially clip my heels (because I'm telling them too). Also, when they're struggling in a rep, I try to help them learn how to just zone out, stare at my back, and let me pull them along.
-Responding: Some athletes need to learn how to respond appropriately to other runners. For example, during the last 100m of a really hard rep, some athletes will get really tense if you pass them and run inefficiently; others will completely shut down and give up. So I can alter what I do to give them scenarios to practice. For instance, sometimes I go right by them and see how they respond. Sometimes, I just pull up alongside them.. sometimes I let them drop me. Other times, I intentionally drift out to the middle/outside of lane 1 and encourage them to slide up on the inside. We can essentially practice any race scenario.
-Cross Country Technique: On an XC course, I'll run some workouts to show them how to take the tangents, how to accelerate off turns, how to pace/crest a hill, how to run a downhill, etc... You can preach this all day, but it becomes more real when your coach magically gaps you by 5-10m coming off a turn and you're like "what just happened"
-Pacing: Sometimes, athletes just simply can't pace well and I have to help them out lol.
-Being Competitive: You shouldn't race every workout, but sometimes I want them to have some fire in them and be competitive at the end of a workout. Objectively, they run faster if I run it with them.
*Of course, there's a certain level of fitness you have to have in order to do all this. If a coach is struggling just to hang on, then it's likely not as productive.
** And lastly, sometimes it's just stinking cold and I'm grumpy and still half-asleep if I'm just standing around (coaches are humans too).
Exactly! I coach at a school that had no real culture because the prior coach had destroyed it. My first two years was developing the boys culture, because they had a full team, but we only had three girls. When I determined that it was time to fix the culture of the girls team, I took a hard working freshman girl, and we ran every run that summer together, except for workouts. In those runs, I explained everything I could to her about how to train, how to race, and how to lead the rest of the girls. The next year, we added three other girls, and repeated it. By then, they were too fast for me, as I was aging, and they were improving. Five years later, we have a very respectable girls team, and our guys are frequent flyers at the state meet. It would not have happened without all of those long training runs.
On a side note, nobody thinks it is odd for the basketball coach or the other coaches to get involved in practices. Baseball and softball coaches hit fielding practice. Basketball coaches demonstrate pick and roll, and other stuff. How do we coach them if we are not with them? How do we keep from being negligent, if we just send them off and do not supervise them? It is wrong to try to show them up on every workout, but demonstrating the pace or intensity is not out of line, even if the prudes like flagpole disagree.
Basketball coaches done join practice scrimmages. Baseball coaches don't go play the field or face live pitching in practice. Your comparisons show that you are a moron.
Clown, those examples would be the coach joining a track workout. I did not suggest doing that.
Had a new head coach start my senior year at D1 school. He ran with us EVERY day. I hated it. He ruined the team energy and dynamic. It was like he was policing us. He took the joy of running from me
Disclaimer: I’m a high school coach not college so maybe it’s a little different but what do coaches even do on runs if they aren’t running with the team? What a waste of time and opportunities to actually coach! Running with the kids is the most time that I have to actually coach them. Standing at the track with a stopwatch is poor coaching, all the kids have a watch now anyways. I’m amazed that a coach wouldn’t be out there with the kids. The only valid argument I’ve read here is it can get in the way of team dynamics, which I agree with. We have about 3-4 different ability level groups so I try to run with a different one everyday, so each kid doesn’t have me hovering around too often. I could see how that would be different in college as kids are closer in ability level.
Disclaimer: I’m a high school coach not college so maybe it’s a little different but what do coaches even do on runs if they aren’t running with the team? What a waste of time and opportunities to actually coach! Running with the kids is the most time that I have to actually coach them. Standing at the track with a stopwatch is poor coaching, all the kids have a watch now anyways. I’m amazed that a coach wouldn’t be out there with the kids. The only valid argument I’ve read here is it can get in the way of team dynamics, which I agree with. We have about 3-4 different ability level groups so I try to run with a different one everyday, so each kid doesn’t have me hovering around too often. I could see how that would be different in college as kids are closer in ability level.
What are you going to do when you're in your late 50's and you struggle to even run with the slower girls? I guess you could bike alone side them so you can continue to micromanage every aspect of their practice.
I think that running with the team is something that should be rare, and never in a track workout situation. Imagine how uncomfortable for a female runner to have her much older male coach out there on her long runs. Can't talk about boys, do you think she'll even feel comfortable enough to fart, or have to step into the woods for a pee? These are things that are sooo basic to running and you're making even that uncomfortable.
Don't be a control freak and don't rob those kids of the joy of going on a group run together.
Small D1 program. Our coach runs our workouts with us. Not just easy days or long runs, but joins in with a group during tempo runs and workouts. It's not all the time, but becoming more frequent. Does anyone else have this? Maybe I'm over thinking it, but I find myself not being fully coached. I heard from some of the older guys he will enter races as well and race the team. I really don't want to race my coach.... does anyone have experience with this? suggestions?
This has been beaten to death over the years on letsrun.com. Consensus from fairly sane posters is that the coach shouldn't run with the team, especially if it is high school, but pretty much no for college as well.
Search for these threads if you are really interested.
This has been beaten to death over the years on letsrun.com. Consensus from fairly sane posters is that the coach shouldn't run with the team, especially if it is high school, but pretty much no for college as well.
Search for these threads if you are really interested.
CORRECT! The right answer is that a coach shouldn't do this.
hmmm...since both have commented here, is flagpole or malmo correct on this one...I'll take malmo, the person who has actually accomplished something and knows what he's talking about.