Jerry Schumacher Training

I like the percentage breakdowns and most everything is sound, but the trouble comes when trying to stick to the pace prescriptions in training when conditions are not exactly the same as when you tested. Even a smaller rolling course or little doses of uphill are enough to cause a runner to deviate from their goal intensity target. 

@PeytonH

Wow, good stuff!

I do have one follow up question about your example. In this example, your athlete does a 1 mile time trial and runs 5:00 flat for easy of calculations. I looked at the table I linked from John Kellogg and the table says that someone with a Mile time of 5:00 would convert to a speed per mile of vVO2 Max of 5:25. It looks like Kellogg is saying that vVO2 Max is more gentle of an effort than a mile time. Were you implying that athlete in question ran the mile and the conversion to vVO2 Max was 5:00? In this example, the mile would have been run in 4:36 resulting in a vVO2 Max of 5:00 (according to the table).

@forcerunner

Totally agree. Most people I know would target the fastest end of each range and overdo the wind and the inclines. Some inclines are impossible to see until you look at the data afterwards. I use a Stryd footpod with the air port, so it's not really an issue for me at all.

Absolutely. Good points. This is simply hypothetical postulation in the perfectly safe vacuum of forum discussion. We all know that a windy, rainy, cold day out on some hilly dirt road isn't going to produce the same splits as a 60 degree spring morning on the track with your friends... But the internal load might be the same.

Effort trumps pace at least 80% of the time.

For anything slower than roughly that 75% effort/pace zone, you definitely have to allow flexibility based on weather, terrain, altitude, your biometric state, etc. For anything faster, having a realistic range of paces designed to illicit a similar response should help account for these variables.

BHViking-

Ah. I didn't realize there was a difference there. Should have looked closer at the chart...

I think JK is probably assuming vVO2 Max is closer to ~5K+ pace, which has been debated tons over the years. From my research, true vVO2 occurs in that 4-8min range which is a HUGE difference... So, my 5:00 assumption would be hypothetical vVO2 Pace in this example.

I am not a physiologist. I welcome any experts to explain. However, I honestly don't think your vVO2 would be 25sec slower than your mile time for a 5:00 Miler. If your mile was like 3:50, then... It makes much more sense. That's why I suggested the ~2400m test for MD runners before.

Only way to know for yourself is to get lab tested, unfortunately.

PeytonH,

Thanks for the clarification! That is a very, very big difference isn't it. Just looking at general endurance, 60-70% for our hypothetical miler would be 6:30-7:00 pace as you correctly pointed out. By using the JK conversion, the pace would slow to 7:03-7:35 pace. Quite the difference. So yeah, it all comes down to how to get an approximation for vVO2 Max. I'm sure most of us would prefer the field test to the lab :)

Also, agree with your comments about using these as general targets and trusting your body's feel. I think of them as "when in doubt targets" especially very early in a workout before I've really settled into a comfortable rhythm.