BEST WORLD RECORD

Real Talk wrote:

UR an idiot. MJs 19.32 200m record is the 100m world record broken twice. And he ran it back then. 49 sec laps back to back does sound hard, but it sounds hard right now. If we take your same logic, the 400m world record (MJs too) is 43.18. In order to break that a human would have to basically double 21.5, which according to you is impossible. The basic lesson is times change and competition grows. With more competition in the 800, you will see more people in the 1:41s. I do think that whoever does it is a person capable of not only running a crazy mile, but a 44-point 400.

And when in hell did i say that runing back to back 21.5 is impossible ??? I DIDNT!!!! dumbass..

i said 49 sec laps back to back was not possible.....ok...i so i suppose that it is "possible"....but then hell...back .to back 40sec laps is "possible"..but neither are EVER going to happen...

frankly in my mind when you morons talk about how "weak" the 800m, i really dont know what the hell you are talking about?

why do you assume that the best 800m runners are all in the mile, or the 400m??

did it ever occur to you that the best 800m runners PROBABLY ...find there way to the 800m?? i know that Kipketer and Coe with BOTH beaten handily in the 400m, and the 1500m(in kipketers defence, the mile was more competitive during his time)......so let me get this straight..since all the good 800m have been running the mile or the 400m(where ever you think the good 800m runners are). Kipketer , and Coe have gotten away with weak records?

Is that what your saying??.cause ...thats what im reading.

Have you ever seen the video of Kipketer running that record??

i going to say NO..

other wise you might have more respect for their accomplishment...

the 800m IS NOT a weak event..at any level...i cant think of another distance event ...That has the same potential for a MAJOR upset...even at the highest levels...

it doesnt really seem to favor a particular ethnicity, or country.

it doesnt even seem to favor a particular type of training....just hard training

I was fortunate enough to see in person both MJ's 19.32 and Kipketer's 1:41.24 (after he tied the WR, and 10 days before he set the current WR) and both races were incredible. Both guys had upright running styles as well. I expect to see MJ's record last longer, no one has come within .36 of him and in a race less than 20 seconds long. Only two guys have come within a second of Kipketer's 800 which is pretty amazing. I expect Powell's LJ to last longer than Kipketer's 800 as well. Beamon's LJ lasted 68-91, even longer than Coe's 800. I wouldn't want to say any of these records is "better" than another, just how long I think they'll last.

> Coe was DEFINITELY an 800m specialist far more so than a 1500m specialist

I suspect if you asked Coe which event he preferred I think he would say the 800 and yes on times alone he was clearly a little bit better at 800. I cannot agree that he was a specialist at the event however. To do so implies he so was much better at that event than any another. But the the facts do not indicate this.

After all there are not too many (if any?) "specialists" that can boast 2 Olympics golds in their supposed secondary event and none in their supposed preferred event.

It's fair to say Coe was never as dominant after 1984 but if you look at the stats around that time you will see Coe did his pb later than Cram did his and indeed in that 1986 3:29 Coe came within a whisker of reclaiming the world 1500 record.

You are probably right that Coe may never have broken 13:00 for 5000 but his promised move to the event never happened and so we cannot really sure be on that one.

And if you want an example of another 800m runner who is right up with the very best at 1500 but relatively useless further than that just look at Kelly Holmes - she has never even broken 9 mins for 3000. Of course, like Coe, she hardly ever raced further than a mile and clearly both could have run faster than their pbs in these events if they had taken them seriously at any time.

The 800 world record is not the best record out there. In fact far from it. The reason that no one has come close to the 800 is the fact that it requires just as much speed as it does endurance, possibly more.

The people with the best chance to break the 800 record are sprinters (especially 400m runner) moving up distance, rather than distance runners moving down.

Internationally the 800 consists of types of distance runners moving down than it does sprinters moving up. The problem here is that the distance runners just lack the necessary speed to go any faster in the 800.

No one really cares about the 800 at all anyway. For sprinters the 400 is more important and for distance runners the 1500/mile is more important. Nobody wants to run the event in the middle.

? wrote:

The people with the best chance to break the 800 record are sprinters (especially 400m runner) moving up distance, rather than distance runners moving down.

care to offer any supporting evidence? your statement sounds like simply a guess when held against the fact that the two fastest ever 800 runners were distance guys...(I don't have facts to prove it, but believe Kipketer would have been more competitive at 1500 than 400...anyone with facts please prove me wrong or right)

yeah...your just wrong man...other than jaunternero (spelling i know)....sprinters rarely transition easily...most good 800m runners would get hammered in a compitive 400...but could hold there own ..in the 1500m

borzakovsky will break the 800m record by the time he's done

"Yes, Michael Johnson's 19.32 is faster than the 100m world record run back to back, but you see, when you have more room to sprint, you can pick up more speed. That's why it is faster, and that's why they don't count 4x400m relay times for world records, because people are getting a head start. I would agree that 19.32 is one of the best records, but the 800m WR is much harder to attain, because you have to have a perfect balance of aerobic and anaerobic fitness. You have to be the 400m runner and the miler."

this person is probably the most ignorant person i have ever encountered. in sprints, the human reaches maximum speed at roughly 60-65 meters, the rest is holding on. it is not possible to accelerate for an additional 100+ meters.

Women's 100 & 200 records. Juiced or not it'll be an extremely long time before these are broken.

Its all f***ing relative you dumbass. If you say a 49-point double is impossible, then you say another quick double is impossible. It doesn't necessarily have to be 21.5, but it could be anything. Like a doubling 2:44 in the mile. It will be possible, like all things though it takes time. Years ago, people thought that training was as advanced as it could possibly be, now look how far we've gotten. God, you're dumb.

And then "back .to back 40sec laps is 'possible'". What the f***!!! When I picked 21.5, I picked a double that's a record maybe for your local high school not the f***ing world. You should have stopped while you were ahead.

Women aren't gonna be beating the men in the marathon any time soon. Sorry but the women today can't run 2:04:55 pace for 10k on a track. Mens record pace in the marathon is closer to elite women's 5k pace. The marathon is run on the roads too. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that one.

Best record: 19.32, thats is just unreal, no BS wind readings or anything,

Men's distance: 800m is the toughest to break, the 5k, 10k still have Bekele around to drop, lets see how far...

Women's distance: umm...all of them, 3000m 8:06, no one will be touching that one until they start gene doping or some sort of bionic shit.

Analysis of records:

Men's 100: 9.77

Powell or Gatlin will break this next year. The event had a big slump in 2003 but is back with vengeance. In Athens, a 9.89 by Crawford got him 4th.

Men's 200: 19.32

Probably never. Usain Bolt is a big, big talent, but his Pb is 19.93. Crawford has 19.79. There is no way they will be taking .61 and .47 seconds off their times respectively. I can't foresee anyone beating this for a LONG time unless the equivalent of a 200m running Bekele emerges from nowhere, and even that is unlikely considering Bekele had a mentor in Geb and there is no big figure in the 200 right now.

Men's 400- 43.18

Wariner will get this eventually. 400m also had a slump from 2001-2003 without MJ, but Wariner is unbelievable and will do great things.

Men's 800- 1:41.11

The men's 800 had its slump this year. Borzakovsky has run 1:42 and can't be past his prime. Bucher ran 1:42 but seems past his prime. Bungei and Yiampoy have 1:42's.

Basically you need a race where Khadevis Robinson takes it out in 48.6-49.0 (Kipketer's split was 49.00) and has 4-5 guys up his backside instead of lagging back. Get at least 2-3 to 600 in 1:15-point and the WR goes. Kipketer was so good that he needed no one with him, but no 800 man today is good enough to get it alone. If Borzakovsky stopped messing around with lagging in 8th until the last 800, he'd probably have run 1:42-1:43 this year.

Men's 1500- 3:26.00

Lagat no longer has El Guerrouj to chase, and while he may be a factor until Beijing, I doubt he will go under 3:26.

This record is very, very tough to break. If you need evidence, look at how many times Ramzi, Komen, and Lagat tried for it this summer. In Zurich they went through 400 in 53.42 and 800 in 1:49.78. They were absolutely trucking behind and they hit the bell still on pace at 2:32-point.

But when El Guerrouj ran this record he hit the bell in 2:32.78 and ran 53.22 for his last 400. That's wacko. No one today has that speed off such a fast pace. El Guerrouj went through 1200 in 2:44.75 in Rieti 2002 and MISSED the record. Because of how often this is run, in strength I put this record up there near Komen's 7:20 but a bit below MJ's 19.32. In the near future only El Guerrouj can take it lower.

Men's Mile- 3:43.13

Again, a great record. Ngeny also ran 3:43.40 but he is probably done. Bashir ran 3:47.98 and with guys like Komen, Lagat, Webb, Silva, Ramzi, Baala, and Mottram not quite fast enough for running 54-high for 3.75 laps but fast enough to possibly split a 3:28-high for 1500 and then hold on for dear life for the last 109.344m, this one may go.

Men's 3,000- 7:20.67

El Guerrouj alone can take this, and he tried once and failed the same year he broke the mile (3:43.13) and 2,000m (4:44.79).

Bekele will not break this. He has excellent basic speed no doubt (probably around 48 seconds for 400 based on his 23-point 200 in Lausanne 2 years ago) but he does not seem capable of a 3:29 1500 and a 3:46 mile a la Komen. Bekele is a 10,000m specialist unlike Komen who was perfect at 1500-3K and managed great 5K's as well.

Men's 2 mile- 7:58.61

If you can believe it, compared to the 3K this is "soft" but it would take a 3:45 miler to get it; perhaps El Guerrouj could do it as Komen and Ramzi are not strong enough to run longer and even Lagat running 12:59 was exhausted whereas El Guerrouj cruised a 12:50.24 in Ostrava.

Men's 5,000m- 12:37.35

Bekele takes it next year. He split 7:32 in Paris for 3K and a 2:28.97 (!) suicidal 3rd k, but if and when guys like Kipchoge, Shaheen, and Sihine (and El G) chop 4-5 seconds off their times he will have an incentive.

What made the 90's great were the battles between Geb and Komen in Zurich where a WR was virtually guaranteed provided that they stayed together in the late stages.

The physical dimensions of this record are becoming mind-boggling as the pace is now 4:03 per mile.

Men's 10,000m- 26:17.53

As awesome as this record is, and I think it's even better on a performance chart to Komen's 7:20, Bekele can take it again. He had pacing only until 5K, but if Sihine, Wanjiru, or Kemboi can push him into the later stages as Koech did to Tergat in 1997 (26:27.85) look out.

Men's Half-Marathon: 59:16 (59:05)

This event had a great year with both of Tergat's marks going.

Tergat himself managed a remarkable 59:10 last spring, so I say with Tadesse, Geb, Tergat, and Wanjiru out there, it could go soon enough.

Men's Marathon- 2:04:55

One word: Gebrselassie

Two more: London 2006

Women's records:

Sadly, the 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 3,000, and 10,000 will never be broken by clean athletes.

Those 7 records are held by just 4 people: Flo-jo, Koch, Kratochvilova, Junxia, and Qu.

Koch and Kratochvilova are jokes--Kratoch is a she-beast and literally looks like a man.

Koch came from doped up East Germany and there is no chance she ran cleanly.

Not to disrespect the deceased, but if you want to know about Flo-Jo, simply search for pictures pre-1984 and post-1984. You'll see it.

Qu and Wang Junxia are absurd. Renato speculated that they share male chromosomes and therefore are nearly like men physiologically, but even when Wang won OLY gold she NEVER even approached her WR again.

Breaking the 5K WR in the second half of a 10K WR tends to raise eybrows, as does the fact that WR's were broken in HEATS during Chinese nationals and by the same athletes within a 3-5 day period and again in Stuttgart back when drug testing was a bigger farce than it is today (if you can imagine that).

8:06 for 3K? Uh, no. That's 13:30 5K pace. Consider that Wang would be hanging onto Goucher and Broe if the latter two were having a bit of an off day in a 5,000. I don't think so.

The 5,000 run by Abeylgesse (14:24.68) will be broken by Defar or Dibaba.

Dibaba can go sub-30:00 in the 10K, and Paula or Dibaba will take the marathon WR (or perhaps one of the great Asian females who seem to be pounding out 2:19-2:22 times). Deena can certainly go under 2:20 as well, but 2:15:25 is another of those off-the-charts records.

You're kidding right? El Gerrouj has run in the low 7:20's

Antidisestablishmentarianism wrote:

Men's 200: 19.32

Probably never. Usain Bolt is a big, big talent, but his Pb is 19.93. Crawford has 19.79. There is no way they will be taking .61 and .47 seconds off their times respectively. I can't foresee anyone beating this for a LONG time unless the equivalent of a 200m running Bekele emerges from nowhere, and even that is unlikely considering Bekele had a mentor in Geb and there is no big figure in the 200 right now.

Great analysis -- thanks. But where's the STEEPLE?

Also, re. your 200 notes, I agree that the 19.32 seems untouchable, but then again what was MJ's time before that day in Atlanta?

Furthermore, El-G did a 200 in competition?! Cool!

Thanks again.

irun wrote:

Yes, Michael Johnson's 19.32 is faster than the 100m world record run back to back, but you see, when you have more room to sprint, you can pick up more speed.

I've never understood this. You constantly hear that sprinters can accelerate only for approximately the first 60 meters or so of a 100 meter race, and that the best they can do for the last 40 meters is to try to maintain speed. The fact that Johnson's time represents an average of 9.66 per 100, significantly faster than the 100 WR of 9.97, would seem to indicate that this isn't true.

Elmer wrote:

I've never understood this. You constantly hear that sprinters can accelerate only for approximately the first 60 meters or so of a 100 meter race, and that the best they can do for the last 40 meters is to try to maintain speed. The fact that Johnson's time represents an average of 9.66 per 100, significantly faster than the 100 WR of 9.97, would seem to indicate that this isn't true.

I'll give this a try.

I saw some 10m splits of Donovan Bailey and Carl Lewis's (and Ben Johnson's, but let's toss out drug-aided runs here) 100m WR's. The first few 10m segments are quite slow, naturally, compared to overall time. The first 10m for Lewis as I remember was between 1.30-1.40 seconds, which would have brought him home in 13-14 seconds for 100 had he not accelerated.

But this is the key; the fastest segments are around 0.80-0.90 seconds. In essence, at some parts of the race he is running at 8.00 second 100m pace. Average it all out and you get 9.85 or whatever his record was.

Apply this now to Michael Johnson. Johnson stumbled out of the blocks but ran a quick first 50m. Let's say he ran 5.8 (that could be way off, but for argument's sake) for the first 50m.

His split at 100m was 10.12, so that makes his 2nd 50 4.32. But now he is in full flow and his last 100m of 9.20 means two straight 4.6's on average.

So, in fact, he DID slow down the second part of the race. From 100-150 might have been 4.4-4.5 and then from 150-200 could have been 4.7-4.8, maybe slower. But the total time is faster because he was in motion. NBC did a great stride analysis of Johnson during the 2000 OT in Sacramento during his 43.68 400. He apparently hit up to 300 strides/minute around 200m, but he slowed quite a bit at the end. It's just the nature of sprinting.

Also, to steepler, sorry about the 3KSC.

The record is 7:53.63, although the fastest absolute time is 7:53.28 (?) by Brahim "I took EPO and cheated like a dirty rodent" Boulami.

I think Shaheen should move to 5K because he danced away from El G to the tune of the #6 performer ever in 12:48.81 in Ostrava.

However, if he runs it and perhaps enlists the pacemaking services of a juiced Boulami or a clean young Kenyan, he can go close to 7:50. The guy is great.

Dorcus Inzikuru will certainly take the 3KSC under 9:00 for women next year.

I would say the INDOOR 3,000m record is stronger than the outdoor.

However, IMO the 10,000 world record trumps both of those, think about it 25 consecutive laps at 63 seconds!

I believe this list will confirm your contentions:

The Fastest Ever Recorded 10m Split Times (The Split Times below come from careful Video-Tape analysis footage. the Splits are taken by X King)

Men

Reaction Time (RT) Limit: 0.100s

0-10m: 1.69s (Minus RT), Raymond Stewart (9.96s Tokyo WCH 1991, w+1.2m/s), Frankie Fredericks (9.86s Lausanne GP 1996, w-0.4m/s), Maurice Greene (9.79WR Athens GP 1999, w+0.1m/s & 9.82s Edmonton WCH 2001, w-0.2m/s) & Tim Montgomery (9.85s Edmonton WCH 2001, w-0.2m/s) (Note: 1.69s, also by Ben Johnson Seoul OG 1988 DQ*, 9.79s w+1.1m/s)

10-20m: 1.00s, Bruny Surin (9.84s Sevilla WCH 1999, w+0.2m/s) & Maurice Greene (9.82s Edmonton WCH 2001, w-0.2m/s) (Note: 1.00s, also by Ben Johnson Roma WCH sf. 1987 DQ*)

20-30m: 0.89s, Maurice Greene (9.87s Stockholm GP 1999, w+1.3m/s)

30-40m: 0.86s, Maurice Greene (9.97s Crystal Palace BGP 1999) & Tim Montogmery (9.84s Olso GL 2001, w+2.0m/s) (Note: 0.86s, also by Ben Johnson Seoul OG 1988 DQ*, 9.79s w+1.1m/s)

40-50m: 0.84s, Carl Lewis (9.86WR Tokyo WCH 1991, w+1.2m/s), Frankie Fredericks (9.86s Lausanne GP 1996, w-0.4m/s), Maurice Greene (9.93s Lausanne GP 1999) & Tim Montgomery (9.78WR Paris GP Final 2002, w+2.0m/s), (Note: 0.84s, aslo by Ben Johnson Seoul OG 1988 DQ*, 9.79s)

50-60m: 0.82s, Maurice Greene (9.85s Roma GP 1999, w+0.8m/s, 9.86s Berlin GL 2000, w-0.2m/s & 9.87s Sydney OG 2000, w-0.3m/s)

60-70m: 0.83s, Donovan Bailey (9.93s Lausanne GP 1996) & Maurice Greene (9.86s Berlin GL 2000, w-0.2m/s 9.87s Sydney OG 2000, w-0.3m/s & 9.82s Edmonton WCH 2001, w-0.2m/s)

70-80m: 0.83s, Carl Lewis (9.86WR Tokyo WCH 1991, w+1.2m/s) & Maurice Greene (9.86s Berlin GL 2000, w-0.2m/s & 9.87s Sydney OG 2000, w-0.3m/s)

80-90m: 0.85s, Carl Lewis (10.03s Roma WCH sf. 1987,w-1.4m/s, 9.93WR Roma WCH 1987, w+1.0m/s, 9.97s Seoul OG sf. 1988,w+0.6m/s, & 10.02s Stuttgart WCH 1993, w+0.3m/s) & Maurice Greene (9.79WR Athens GP 1999, w+0.1m/s, 9.80s Sevilla WCH 1999, w+0.2m/s & Sydney OG 2000,w-0.3m/s)

90-100m: 0.85s, Carl Lewis (9.99s Los Angeles OG 1984,w+0.2m/s & 10.02s Stuttgart WCH 1993, w+0.3m/s) & Maurice Greene (9.79WR Athens GP 1999, w+0.1m/s)

Fastest ever recorded 'legal' Reaction Time: 0.100s, Jon Drummond(Monaco GP 1993)

Total (without Jon Drummond's Perfect 0.100s reaction time from the Monaco GP in 1993): 9.46s

Total (with Jon Drummonds Perfect 0.100s reaction time from the Monaco GP in 1993): 9.56s

As nearly all of the above 10m split times came from my Video-Analysis footage I shall list the Video-Speeds for the videos in which certain splits were taken from.