Average_Joe
absolutely brilliant.
Average_Joe
absolutely brilliant.
Vipam - I agree with your sentiments entirely, but sadly we live in a cynical world. Too many people let jealousy and suspicion rule their lives...
And another thing about Paula is that she is running times that will eventually becmoe the norm. She is breaking down barriers and showing other women what is possible. The 'Paula effect' is already apparent among British female distance runners and at international level we soon see lots of women running sub 30min 10ks and sub-2:20 marathons.
Bazza,
good point....Paula is taking womens distance running to where it should be and showing others what is possible.
It is probable that Radcliife, Wami & Tulu will all go sub 30:00 for 10K at the world championships........if they do will everyone start screaming DRUGS. If Wami runs an autumn marathon and improves her pr of 2:22:19 to sub 2:20 will they start accusing her, certainly not.
Yes there certainly are cheats in the sport but that does not mean to say we should tar everyone with the same brush. If pepole get caught more fool them, let them be banned for life ( the IAAF & IOC certainly dont help their own case by only banning cheats for 2 years )
Until anyone has any proof that Paula or anyone else is on juice then they should crawl back into that dirty little pit form whence they came.
Cos she trains hard, dedicates her life to athletics and knows how to get the best out of her body.
She deserves all her success.
I just can't believe some of the crap that has been posted on this thread.
"It is ridiculously obvious that Paula is on something." - this is one of my favorites
That is what is so great about people who like to go off on jealous rants, they get to throw out completely unsubstantiated claims and statements. If it is "ridiculously obvious" that Paula is on drugs which many of you like to claim, then I'm guessing that it should be "ridiculously easy" for one of you to provide one piece of proof. All I am asking for is one positive test of an A and B sample. If a person is on something, that shouldn't be too hard to provide, especially given the regularity with which Paula provides samples. Pointing out how much she broke the world record by in the marathon does not suffice. Because then clearly Geb is a doper to based on what he has done to the world records. Never mind that he has been breaking world records for 8 years and never been busted for drugs, anybody who is that good must be on drugs.
To me, a lot of this sounds like "I think I am a really good runner and the only way I can imagine why I'm not the best is because all those other people are on drugs." Jealousy, jealousy, jealousy. I liked what Vipam mentioned about whether this means that we should infer that other professions are dominated by crooks. I can't believe that people think this is the case. The majority of CEOs and leaders being crooks? If this was the case, we wouldn't be living in industrialized nations, our countries would more resemble Nigeria.
A lot of people (especially in the United States) have a hard time with the idea that they probably aren't special, unique, and a really hard worker. The reason why you aren't CEO is because you aren't good enough and you don't work hard enough. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm not good enough and don't work hard enough either. Odds are it is not a result of someone cheating and stealing which resulted in you not being able to make it to the top. The reason why you aren't a top runner in the world is due to some combination of not having enough talent and not training properly. It's that simple. It's not because some big conspiracy is going on and your name isn't on the guest list. Think about it, there is only 1 world best in a given sport or discipline. In distance running, Paula Radcliffe is it. She is 1 out of 3 billion (women). Put most people in a room of 1000 and they are nowhere near special, let alone a "room" of 3 or 6 billion. Most people don't get this and they love to feel important. All the mundane conversations I've had with people who love to tell me how important and stressful their job is or what a difference they are making in some area. Well, unless you are a doctor, firefighter or some leading scientist, your job probably isn't all that important and neither is mine. Yet, people don't get this and often when they see someone succeed they have to resort to making excuses as to why that person is there and they are not. It is this trait coming out of many of the people with the "if you are world or even national class, you must be cheating" mentality. Hey, it's fine for people to have dreams and the occasional delusions of grandeur, but just because things don't pan out how you always thought they would doesn't mean you have to bring people who are succeeding down with you.
Based on most equivalance charts, she "set the world record" for most all distances above 400 meters. You will probably agree with me that the 400 and 800 world records were drug-assisted. THAT ALONE, SHOULD MAKE YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT SHE'S UP TO.
We do know what she's been up to, years and years of hard training after years and years of disappointment
Average Joe, I hate to say this, but we have no idea what she is up to. I know how all the Kenyans and Ethiopians run so fast, they work really hard for several years too, no drugs, but people would call me an idiot for saying that. Do you think Daniel Komen ran 7:20 just dicking around, no, he killed all the other Kenyans in training, trained harder than Paula could even dream of, got rich and now he dicks around. How about Boulami after years of making the finals and finishing pretty high up there at times, he finally had his breakthrough, his years of hard work paid off, he was the best, then he was busted, it took him a few years too. Don't assume she is clean just because she works hard, that is what drugs allow you to do train hard, harder than before so you can be faster. Now we look back at Komen and say his training was insane, oh it was the drugs, we look at Paula and say her training is insane, not like Komen, but still out there, and we say hard work and dedication. I'll say this, the US and British distance runners are so desperate for a star we'll worship the first one that comes along, in this era Paula.
Nobody knows if Paula is clean or not, but we all know the sport is not clean. How about having a clean sport for starters.
Why would doctors, firefighters and scientist be any more special than the rest of us. 95 percent of all scientists don't discover anything meaningfull.
A ton of CEO's are crooks, you just don't see it. Many CEO's are awarded lofty options even in this bad economic climate. They cash in those options for millions of dollars, sometimes hundreds of millions. Then they use company money to buy back shares only to give out more options again. This activity does not even show up in their accounting. Talk about stealing from the shareholder. Go look at the CEO from EBAY. She makes 800K
a year which is normal, but she somehow owns 750 million dollars worth of shares and cashed in several hundred million dollars worth already. The company has not even earned that much money in its entire history. If that is not a crook, then nothing is. This kind of activity goes on so much in the corporate world that it is percieved as normal by you and most others even though it is a clever form of stealing.
Mackenzie wrote:
Don't assume she is clean just because she works hard
No, I assume she is clean untill she is proven guilty by due process and not by a bunch of low-ability creeps throwing the dirt.
Maybe there are only three kinds of runner out there -- cheats who get caught, cheats who don't get caught and losers -- so why the big deal about PR? Just accept your sport is rubbish. Like professional wrestling or something.
Edith
Edith, I believe I may have stated my point poorly. What I should have said is that just because someone works hard does not mean they do not use drugs. The drug cheats work hard too, they just use drugs as well. The drugs in fact should allow them to work harder. So the fact that Paula works hard really does nothing to prove she is not on drugs, however there is also nothing to say she is, thus she is clean, and everyone should be viewed the same way, Geb, Tergat, Deena, if there is nothing other than the "they train hard and run really fast thus they are on drugs" argument, then there is nothing. But, if you feel that argument is sound, then you should assume Paula is dirty along with all the other fast people, but often people make an exception for her and I don't agree, its all or nothing. I'll say they're clean but suspicion should be on all not some.
50 years ago Jim Peters became the first man to run a marathon in under 2:20 (2:18:40). The previous year he had smashed the existing WR by 5minutes (2:20:42), and in 1954 he improved again, running 2:17:39.
If this board had existed then (sadly) I'm loads of people would have been slagging him off and accusing him of being a druggie. The simple truth was that he was a talented, dedicated runner (with a full time job and a family) who took training and racing to a new level...
What if he was getting consistently beat by a guy who was on drugs? I think history would view his accomplishments as very minor. Things were much more simple back in the day. Today, there are Jim Peter types taking second and third place because of drugs. Sometimes these Jim Peter type runners are winning anyway. The problem is that nobody knows who the real Jim Peters is and who is the fake.
Mackenzie
I see you as one of the good guys on here so it's cool.
Please note that when PR was told by some commentators after winning the Munich 10K that her time was the "real" WR and not the Chinese her answer was "No", she respects the Chinese athletes because she wants respect for herself and her sport.
The people who have NO respect for running are the losers who HOPE that PR cheats and gets caught and care less about the damage that would do to running so long as SHE isn't winning any more. Scum.
Edith
Keep in mind that I am NOT directly accusing Paula of being on drugs since I have absolutely no hard evidence of such.
I am only advocating a VERY HARSH drug enforcement policy that includes
(1) Prison Time for those who are convicted of a drug-offense. Sure they can train in prison, but it is going to be tough when Bubba is chasing after your rear-end with jar of vaseline.
(2) The French-style searching of rooms, luggage and cars of the athletes, coaching, therapists and doctors. This is what helped clean up the TourDeFrance....somewhat.
ALL THE BEST TO PAULA RADCLIFFE, I HOPE THAT SHE BREAKS A NEW BARRIER, CLEANLY.
I am all for opportunities for people.
Next weekend, I am creating such an opportunity for 2 runners from LAOS, including Ms. Sirivanh Ketavong, having negotiated their trip to the Nagano Marathon, all expenses paid. Get the full picture before you judge me.
I have to think that PR is on drugs. So what? Why should I work & train, while you just train, is that fair? Give up your Nike shoes & run in Walmart $19.99ers.
You need to tell me what is fair.
I like your dream, but at this time your not good enough to run professionally without all of the cash you have saved. Where is your sense of fairness? You think your better or holier than Thou because you ran 2:18? Get the f*** out of here. Your a pampered pet next to some of these African runners who come up through in spite of their poor environment. Ron Clarke ran 27:39 with a family & a full time job.
Talent will get you near to the top of the sport, BUT Talent & drugs will get you on the podium in the biggest races. Big Jason get on the drugs & I'll see you Birmingham Feb 7th of next year after you qualify for the games.