Newbury Park is the greatest prep xc team in history

yes and yes wrote:

John Kimball wrote:

Those times ARE slow according to their coach.

Yes, and they have many more kids that run faster. Coincidence?

You completely missed the point of his question.

If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?

It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.

So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?

Not sure how long he's been coaching, but I agree with whoever said it'll take time to see if he's a GOAT coach. Will he have a contending State title team every year? National title? My old HS coach (RIP) built a huge tradition with respect and dedication at the heart of the system, as well as monster training. He won more State titles in XC than any other coach in any sport in the State, not sure about nationally. Most of his career as a coach was when the national title meant sending in your times for a 3 mile time trial, to be compared with other teams that entered, but when they started the NXN, they were usually in the mix. The whole national system, with regionals included, as well as the internet-being able to compare and read about what the rest of the country is doing has definitely helped improve the sport. Sounds like Newbury's coach is building a great tradition. It'll be exciting to see if he can make it last.

welcome to 2021 wrote:

PeanutButterJelly wrote:

How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?

Is this the new standard for High School success? I thought it was how they performed in High School races. My bad.

Well, Nico Young was 4th last year as a FRESHMAN, and when this new cohort graduates, they will definitely leave their mark in D1.

8:56 wrote:

yes and yes wrote:

Yes, and they have many more kids that run faster. Coincidence?

You completely missed the point of his question.

If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?

It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.

So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?

Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.

Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.

PeanutButterJelly wrote:

How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?

This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?

Joe Newton, gets beat up on these boards as well. It seams any coach that expects more out of high school kids roasted.

Will Brosnan win as many state champs as your old coach? I doubt it. As far as National title? He's already got one.

DougC wrote:

PeanutButterJelly wrote:

How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?

This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?

What's the Colorado Buffalo fella done since running an 8:45 in high school?

I think if you consider girls into the equation, the 2010 FM girls give them a run for their money. 27 points at NXN is hard to beat. A rough male equivalent for their NXN speed ratings would be 199, 192, 192, 187, 182 which is fairly similar to this NBP team (and that was not their best performance that year). 2014 FM boys hit 198, 194, 194, 189, 178 on a single day, but unfortunately had a really poor day at NXN and are rarely considered one of the GOAT teams because of that (they still won with 111 points though).

They are very similar teams though, albeit with the genders switched. The greatest program of all time on one side (boys for NBP, girls for FM). The single greatest team of all time (2010 FM girls and 2021 NBP boys). More inconsistent success on the opposite gender, but high highs (2014 FM boys, maybe a future NBP girls national champion team...they're already getting better though Saratoga still seems much stronger). An all-in culture including summer training camps and college-type training. A new standard of what good is; seeming to turn everybody into a good runner (FM often had 10 or fewer girls on their roster and 7 of them would win a national championship).

And I expect just like FM, for NBP to go on a national title run for at least a few years. They will eventually lose, all good teams do. The talent will dry up. His slow runners are running 4:28? One day he will have a team that is all slow runners, all 4:20+ milers, and he won't be able to win. Just like with FM, the rest of the country will catch up. But for now, they are the greatest.

DougC wrote:

PeanutButterJelly wrote:

How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?

This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?

Many alums of the majority of programs don't even get a chance to run in college.

Why is the high school coach responsible for college performance? Does the college coach bare any responsibility?

welcome to 2021 wrote:

8:56 wrote:

You completely missed the point of his question.

If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?

It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.

So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?

Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.

Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.

It’s coaching but also talent.

If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.

Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.

Baxter van Der Bosch wrote:

DougC wrote:

This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?

What's the Colorado Buffalo fella done since running an 8:45 in high school?

Ask Mark Wetmore!

8:56 wrote:

welcome to 2021 wrote:

Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.

Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.

It’s coaching but also talent.

If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.

Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.

14:42 for 3rd; Jeff Atinkson's boy won in 14:39.

Straight from Athletic.net. Stats are hard folks. He got 2 talented families and transfers.

Top 4: 2 Families

Leo Young 13:38.1PR

Aaron Sahlman 13:42.3PR

Lex Young 13:44.4PR

Colin Sahlman 13:48.0PR

Hector Martinez 14:38.1PR

Then, this is like most other schools except they are a HUGE D1 School.

ONLY 20 TOTAL boys on the team. For a D1 school, pretty small team.

Daniel Appleford 14:53.9

Dev Doshi 14:58.2PR

Aaron Cantu 15:09.7

Zaki Blunt 15:13.6PR

Oliver Windham-Huges 15:33.6PR

Jonah Sloan 16:01.8PR

Jack Watson 16:27.7PR

Nathan Porter 16:30.5PR

Arnav Shetty 17:12.5PR

Noah Ingersoll 18:00.5PR

Jackson Kurtz 18:13.4PR

Carson Keene 18:56.0PR

Tristan Kanner 19:23.1PR

Nathan Truong 20:08.0PR

Josiah Stillman 23:11.0PR

Girls are fairly similar to other schools. Some transfers here.

Sam McDonnell 15:54.6PR

Morgan Nygren 17:05.2PR

Tiffany Sax 17:07.6PR

Ailish Hawkins 17:07.9PR

Lexi Darley 17:31.6PR

Samantha Spaulding 17:52.1PR

Danielle Brotcke 18:02.4PR

Norah Lehto 19:24.9PR

Samantha Villavicencio 19:32.0PR

Maya Natarajan 19:36.3PR

Abigail Round 19:39.1PR

Ava Sanders 20:50.0PR

Giselle Gonzales 21:10.8PR

Lauren Whetten 21:30.7

Taylor Watson 21:49.7

Abby Inouye 21:51.4PR

Mona Schmitz-Elvenich 22:19.1PR

Sofia Granillo 23:06.2PR

Sydney Parish 23:12.6PR

Sarah Kavanagh 23:38.6PR

Tyler Turner 27:29.1PR

welcome to 2021 wrote:

PeanutButterJelly wrote:

How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?

Is this the new standard for High School success? I thought it was how they performed in High School races. My bad.

Who knows. According the posters here training hard and doing big mileage in high school is either necessary for development or is crazy and causes burn out. Which is it?

8:56 wrote:

welcome to 2021 wrote:

Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.

Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.

It’s coaching but also talent.

If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.

Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.

Yeah, and he just ran 13:38. He dropped a minute off of an already fast time.

They won both the Girls and Boys race at Woodbridge. None of the girls were related to the Youngs.

I'm not selling anything. It happened. You can try to discount the accomplishment if you want, but you wont change the results.

The guy's a good coach.

Appleford is coming off an injury, he is more like a sub 14:30 guy.

8:56 wrote:

welcome to 2021 wrote:

Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.

Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.

It’s coaching but also talent.

If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.

Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.

This is a critical point. I’d put my daughter’s D5 coach up against Brosnan or any other hs coach. He’s won a few D5 CA team titles, but what’s most impressive is where the kids start as freshman and then finish as seniors in terms of the magnitude of improvement over the entire spectrum of talent he’s coaching. Of course, he’s working with a limited talent pool. He gets the back of packers to be solid middle to front of pack runners and he gets those with some ability to be up front. The kids show marked improvement wherever they enter. There’s very little attrition from the team and they enjoy it and they don’t need to be future D1 runners to benefit from his coaching.

For those of you that think he just benefits from talent. Here's an example. Compare the 2019 and 2021 Woodbridge results. They didn't run 2020.

NP number one girl in 2021

Sam McDonnell

2019 - 17:12, 35th place

2021 - 15:54, 2nd place

Desert Vista number one girl in 2021

Lauren Ping

2019 - 16:09, 2nd place

2021 - 16:04, 5th place

Not to single out Ping, and Desert Vista. She's a great runner, they're a good program. But , this shows it's not just about talent.

welcome to 2021 wrote:

For those of you that think he just benefits from talent. Here's an example. Compare the 2019 and 2021 Woodbridge results. They didn't run 2020.

NP number one girl in 2021

Sam McDonnell

2019 - 17:12, 35th place

2021 - 15:54, 2nd place

Desert Vista number one girl in 2021

Lauren Ping

2019 - 16:09, 2nd place

2021 - 16:04, 5th place

Not to single out Ping, and Desert Vista. She's a great runner, they're a good program. But , this shows it's not just about talent.

Here's another example

NP number 7 boy in 2021

Zaki Blunt

2019 - 15:35

2021 - 15:13

Desert Vista number eight boy in 2021 (7 didn't run in 2019)

Diego Rueda

2019 - 17:25

2021 - 16:17

Not to single out Blunt, and NP. He's a great runner and they're a good program, But this just shows your picking out one scenario doesn't mean anything.