Threshold training in disguise

lexel wrote:

Konfuzi wrote:

It’s maybe the most overridingly important one of all and breaking 20min for 5k not rocket science.

Alternate between a 40 min tempo run (at marathon pace), 1k reps at 10k pace with 200m recovery and a 90min long run with the last few miles at tempo pace with a few days of easy running between each and you’ll reach your goal in a couple months more that likely.

It is not so simple if you are 50y. I am 49y, have 70-80k/week and so far i am little abvove 20 min 5k. The cells are sluggish and do not respond so quickly.

Btw. a 20min for 5k for a 50y old is equivalnt to 18min/5k for a 25y old runner.

This is respectable for a amateur runner.

Thats a lot of miles but are any of them quality? If not I’d consider doing what I spelled out above. You’ll be running sub 18 before you know it.

Tinman training ?

Kalinox wrote:

Tinman training ?

Even better. But only if you call them ‘CV’ reps.

Konfuzi wrote:

Kalinox wrote:

Tinman training ?

Even better. But only if you call them ‘CV’ reps.

:-) No need for short reps ? What performances could a hobbyjogger hope with this type of training ?

Kalinox wrote:

Konfuzi wrote:

Even better. But only if you call them ‘CV’ reps.

:-) No need for short reps ? What performances could a hobbyjogger hope with this type of training ?

I’d say most are hampered by their speed endurance and certainly anyone running 20min for 5k can get moving a lot faster than that but simply doesn’t have the high end aerobic capacity that comes from long reps and tempo runs. If you’re weight optimized you can get pretty smoking just with that. Short reps are the icing.

Konfuzi wrote:

Kalinox wrote:

:-) No need for short reps ? What performances could a hobbyjogger hope with this type of training ?

I’d say most are hampered by their speed endurance and certainly anyone running 20min for 5k can get moving a lot faster than that but simply doesn’t have the high end aerobic capacity that comes from long reps and tempo runs. If you’re weight optimized you can get pretty smoking just with that. Short reps are the icing.

Describe the difference between aerobic capacity and aerobic endurance?

no excuses wrote:

Konfuzi wrote:

I’d say most are hampered by their speed endurance and certainly anyone running 20min for 5k can get moving a lot faster than that but simply doesn’t have the high end aerobic capacity that comes from long reps and tempo runs. If you’re weight optimized you can get pretty smoking just with that. Short reps are the icing.

Describe the difference between aerobic capacity and aerobic endurance?

You tell me.

Konfuzi wrote:

Thats a lot of miles but are any of them quality? If not I’d consider doing what I spelled out above. You’ll be running sub 18 before you know it.

Its not my thread, however Jon is running since 2 years (i guess), and i am running since a little over 1year. Maybe it needs more time for us.

At the moment i do the Easy Interval Method, have a thread here. But not the last two weeks.

In my holiday i did easy to moderate only. Nothing above lactate threshold but in hilly area.

Two weeks ago (from 02.Aug) i trained around 11h, with 4 days 2h run sessions, 1 day 1h40 run session and 1 day road cycling. I was interested if my body could hold that and if there is a special adaptation. Yes possible and for the special adaptation time will show.

Last week i had also in total 11h, but with 3 double run sessions, one single run session and 2 bike days for recovery. In that case i was interested if my body could handle double run sessions. Also possible. Time will show improvement.

This is neither here-nor-there, but when I was a kid I was blazing fast. On no training.

But what I did do was ride a BMX bike everywhere, all the time. Probably 20-25 times a day we'd sprint like crazy on our bikes because of something stupid we'd done, to beat a train, to catch up to someone, to get up a hill, to get somewhere.

The remainder of the time we'd just "ride around," totaling up to 25 miles a day (I mapped out a standard day).

Effort is effort. Don't overthink it. Just work hard, but not too hard.

Konfuzi wrote:

no excuses wrote:

Describe the difference between aerobic capacity and aerobic endurance?

You tell me.

You first. You made the claims to superior knowledge. Now back it up.

no excuses wrote:

Konfuzi wrote:

You tell me.

You first. You made the claims to superior knowledge. Now back it up.

I said he was OVER-thinking by trying to adopt Ingerbrigtsen training to break 20min for 5k! Now go get your shine box!

no excuses wrote:

How fast can you run 400m?

Hmm, I have actually not tried all out at any time. I would not know.

Who knows, breaking 70? I should..

Konfuzi wrote:

no excuses wrote:

You first. You made the claims to superior knowledge. Now back it up.

I said he was OVER-thinking by trying to adopt Ingerbrigtsen training to break 20min for 5k! Now go get your shine box!

Come on, answer the question. Don't cop out.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

no excuses wrote:

How fast can you run 400m?

Hmm, I have actually not tried all out at any time. I would not know.

Who knows, breaking 70? I should..

If you can break 70 for 400 but but 20 for 5k I’d say you fit right in to what I was talking about!

no excuses wrote:

Konfuzi wrote:

I said he was OVER-thinking by trying to adopt Ingerbrigtsen training to break 20min for 5k! Now go get your shine box!

Come on, answer the question. Don't cop out.

LOL, wtf are you talking about? Do you even know? Go get your shine box, boy!

Konfuzi wrote:

Joe - what are your lifetime PR’s after 35 years and what does a week of training look like for you???? If you can’t run an hour easy without pain, I doubt any sort of quality is smart. You should probably start there. Easy 60 mins every day for a couple months and build up to a 90 min long run. Then add in a marathon paced tempo run, then maybe *1* session a week of reps/intervals faster assuming you’ve leaned to recover from the tempo and LR. For you, no need to run faster that HM-10k pace. Don’t over complicate something simple.

I did not run road or track. I ran orienteering in the wild forest. Did 5k on a horsetrack as time trials when 18 yo at 18min. Did a 3k indoor when 23 at 9.11. We never trained for running fast on road or fast on anything shorter than 40min race time. Rather I was best on orienteering race times exceeding an hour. sub 19min on 5k in 2014 (43). 11.05 3k in 2012 (41). Again, never trained for running fast on road until the last years. Have had just some periods off training since 2000, a year one two occations. Got twins in 2016, but did some baby-"jogging" (heavy stuff).

My training is

bike recovery + weights + hill sprints on monday

workouts tuesday, often short double since it feels the best

Easy wednesday, maybe some fast 200

workouts thursday

Friday as monday

hills or something as workout saturday

easy/moderate 75min sunday, but tried to combine cycling first straight into running, like 40 cycling+50 run

I do not get pain from running long, but I see no point in waking up a little stiff as I would. Cycling removes that and adds som aerobically. Feels good to run up to 50-60min so I do that. I have run plenty of moderate 60 and 75min runs last years, but not sure it gives much anymore. I feel that 60min gives plenty. I have done long runs ALOT back then, usually 2-2.40 during the winter in terrain, snow, marsh, once 4.30 when 18.

So in great shape, but the 5k speed is really hard to get to.

Long slow all days just feels sluggish and my performance goes down. Some speed and strength feels springy and strong. I have though about that 50 yo needs recovery days inbtw workouts, but it does not feel like it. Still it can be true.

Konfuzi wrote:

no excuses wrote:

Come on, answer the question. Don't cop out.

LOL, wtf are you talking about? Do you even know? Go get your shine box, boy!

The question you are avoiding. What do the terms Aerobic Capacity and Aerobic Endurance mean to you?

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

no excuses wrote:

How fast can you run 400m?

Hmm, I have actually not tried all out at any time. I would not know.

Who knows, breaking 70? I should..

Breaking 70 would be a good springboard to breaking 65, maybe quicker. You won't know until you try.

Konfuzi wrote:

If you can break 70 for 400 but but 20 for 5k I’d say you fit right in to what I was talking about!

I guess you mean 'but not', instead of 'but but'.

False that statement, and often read here.

A 400m run is only 40% aerobic and 60% anaerobic.

A 5k is over 90% aerobic.

You see any difference?