Anyone dreading the day when there will be no good sedans in existence?

car boy wrote:

llort_vbo wrote:

Once again, you're the one talking about foreign guys across the bridge from you.

Here's a less offensive way to refer to people who do repairs on the side; 'Shady Tree Mechanic.' That way you won't sound like an old codger.

Is "foreign" offensive? I've lived in other countries and have been called "foreign". It never occurred to me to be offended by it. Seriously, I'm curious if and why this is offensive.

I actually thought he was talking about a shop that works on foreign autos, but his follow-up showed he's talking about the guys. I remember such shops being called "foreign auto" or something similar. It's been years though. I think a Toyota now is more American made than a Chevy and there isn't really such a distinction anymore.

It's less the word 'foreign' than the manner in which he referred to them. Clearly he's known them for a while and not bothered to know their names. To him, they are the foreign guys who live across the bridge and fix his car. Personally I think that is a bit presumptuous, but hey, that's me.

I think the fact that he doubled down shows that it wasn't an accident.

simplicity is elegant wrote:

I want my car to be really good at being a car. I don’t need it to be a computer as well.

Do you want your phone to be just really good at being a phone and not be a computer as well? Why do you want a phone that does all of that fancy stuff like taking pictures and finding directions?

I've gone a similar route. I drive an '84 BMW with 190k miles that has been ridiculously well maintained it's entire life. The engine has been upgraded and makes around 300hp, has a new suspension, and it's brakes have been upgraded with parts from a newer high performance model. It runs, drives and stops as well as (if not better than) most modern cars, but with styling that doesn't look like some goofy space ship, and I can easily fix anything on it myself.

Most new cars are boring as hell to drive and feel like a video game. All of these idiot proofing doodads (including automatic transmissions) do nothing but make me a more inattentive driver.

Yes, I like simple vehicles.

I know their names. I like them. When I can only talk to one of them because the other barely speaks English being foreign stands out as a characteristic and part of how I think of them because it affects how I interact with them. I also chat with the one whose English is excellent about his trips back home and getting his wife and kids into the US also highlights foreignness. You seem to think saying someone is foreign is an insult. What's with that? And no, nothing I've written has been accidental.

HRE wrote:

I know their names. I like them. When I can only talk to one of them because the other barely speaks English being foreign stands out as a characteristic and part of how I think of them because it affects how I interact with them. I also chat with the one whose English is excellent about his trips back home and getting his wife and kids into the US also highlights foreignness. You seem to think saying someone is foreign is an insult. What's with that? And no, nothing I've written has been accidental.

Sorry gramps, there's only so much I can do with you.

jamin wrote:

New cars just keep getting more expensive to justify the addition of non-optional useless gadgetry which clutters the dashboard and requires to frame to be built larger and have less window space/visibility so as to fit the useless crap. Other things like keyless ignitions may not add clutter but are still pointless. Fortunately you can still buy cars from the mid-2000s that are compact in size and only a couple buttons on the dash and no screens. Soon these cars will have reached their expiration date and we'll be left with nothing but the bloatware of the post-2000s.

They say 50% of the value of a new car is all the electronics.

I bought a 2019 Civic. No bells and whistles, but it does come with Apple Carplay and a touchscreen as standard. It is nice to have that to cycle songs, and it pulls google maps from my iPhone, which makes going to new addresses a lot less stressful. It has adaptive cruise control, lane keep assist, and forward collision protection, which has helped me not have as many close calls.

I think some of the tech is dumb, but some is good. I definitely don't see the point of ridiculous nonsense like keyless entry, start pushbuttons, or motor-assist trunk like some SUV's have. I can close the trunk, I am literally right there and have arms, thanks. The reverse cameras are stupid. I can turn my head and look behind me. I can't even get used to the camera, I don't want to look at a screen to see what's going on behind my when I can just look at what's going on behind me.

You know what I want in a car? I want something that needs zero maintenance, has incredible fuel economy, never breaks down, and lasts forever. I do not need it to be a "statement" about my identity, or a form of self expression. I want to get from point A to B, and don't want it to be a headache.

I can appreciate this. It's funny though what two different people will look for in a car. For example, I don't like cruise control or lane-assist. To be those two things would give me a false sense of security.

I DO like the backup camera as I have a partially herniated disk in my cervical spine. Sometimes I have trouble looking over my shoulder for extended periods without inducing a muscle spasm in my neck. Obviously this can be inconvenient during parking.

I don't mind have the push-button to close the trunk but sometimes it annoys me.

I do like the keyless entry and push-button start. To. each his own...

If you want something with zero maintenance and incredible fuel economy, then you want an electric vehicle.

You won’t need oil changes, tune ups, coolant flushes, transmission serving, air filters, etc.

And you don’t need fuel.

There are, I agree, way too many features in cars that don't get used by a lot of people. TVs in our van have been used 2 or 3x in 5 years...I have no interest in BT-ing my phone to the car etc.

But, the newer safety and driving technologies are not something I will pass on for any new car in the future.

Cameras

Adaptive cruise

ped avoidance (F/R automatic braking etc)

blind spot monitoring.

Those are all huge improvements.

I can definitely do without lane keeping and auto stop/start though. Those are both irritating at least as deployed in our vehicles.

Star wrote:

If you want something with zero maintenance and incredible fuel economy, then you want an electric vehicle.

You won’t need oil changes, tune ups, coolant flushes, transmission serving, air filters, etc.

And you don’t need fuel.

In Canadian Dollars:

Honda Civic: $25K

Tesla Model 3: $53K

I would happily buy an electric car if the price was lower, and if my condo building had 240V chargers in the lot. You only get 1 mile per hour of charging at 120V, which is not enough for my commute.

It's also a myth that electric cars need no maintenance. They need less, but not zero. And then eventually you need to replace the batteries. The advertised range of an electric car is what it will get when brand new, and then it continuously degrades over time. Not a big deal if you only use it for your daily commute, but if you ever want to go on a road trip, forget about it. This is why, as Jamin points out, it is usually someone's 2nd or 3rd car. They just aren't practical as an all-arounder.

Star wrote:

If you want something with zero maintenance and incredible fuel economy, then you want an electric vehicle.

You won’t need oil changes, tune ups, coolant flushes, transmission serving, air filters, etc.

And you don’t need fuel.

It is a crime that the Toyota Hilux is not available in the US. Turbo-Diesel, good gas mileage, abundance of parts and a reputation for toughness.

llort_vbo wrote:

HRE wrote:

I know their names. I like them. When I can only talk to one of them because the other barely speaks English being foreign stands out as a characteristic and part of how I think of them because it affects how I interact with them. I also chat with the one whose English is excellent about his trips back home and getting his wife and kids into the US also highlights foreignness. You seem to think saying someone is foreign is an insult. What's with that? And no, nothing I've written has been accidental.

Sorry gramps, there's only so much I can do with you.

I think you've pretty definitively shown yourself to be the jackass in this exchange. And I'm fairly confident you don't appreciate that.

Technological skeptic Neil Postman in 1996 talks about Cruise Control in new vehicles:

(Go to 20:04-22:14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1204&v=hlrv7DIHllE&feature=youtu.be

jamin wrote:

New cars just keep getting more expensive to justify the addition of non-optional useless gadgetry which clutters the dashboard and requires to frame to be built larger and have less window space/visibility so as to fit the useless crap. Other things like keyless ignitions may not add clutter but are still pointless. Fortunately you can still buy cars from the mid-2000s that are compact in size and only a couple buttons on the dash and no screens. Soon these cars will have reached their expiration date and we'll be left with nothing but the bloatware of the post-2000s.

I agree with your sentiment. They are made to be obsoleted now, with electronic systems that are increasingly proprietary black boxes that are meant to discourage independent shops and push you to dealerships. The bloatware added post-2005ish will mechanically total those vehicles sooner than a well taken care of quality, earlier car. That's why there is a current fight for right to repair.

An prime example is Tesla. Their 8-year battery warranties have been expiring now on the older Teslas, right around when the batteries are starting to fail. People that have failures just under 8 years are happy because they get a fresh new battery. People that have failures just beyond 8 years are screwed, mechanically totaled by the need for a new $17K-20K battery.

Someone like me, a car guy who likes to DIY, can (and plan to) keep my old, pre-bloatware cars in good shape forever, by picking cars that can go half a million miles or more (more than I'll drive the rest of my life), and taking excellent care of them. That's probably not possible for most people, especially in the rust belt.

Here's a nice, clean sedan, with excellent outward visibility from the year of my birth (1969), that will last a whole lot longer into the future than most any current car. Buyer got it for $15K, less than any new car now, but much better quality.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-volvo-142-4/

Avocado's Number wrote:

I think you've pretty definitively shown yourself to be the jackass in this exchange. And I'm fairly confident you don't appreciate that.

Oooh, mwrowrrr, did your girlfriend get scalded? Rushing to her defense. God you're so butch, I love it.

sbeefyk2 wrote:

If I was an automaker who would I listen to. Jamin or the 30m other people who prefer more expensive, higher quality, and more gadgets in their cars? I’ll go where the money is,

The automakers know what they are doing. They want you to buy new cars by discouraging your attempts to fix your old cars. Anyone who has a car that is out of warranty knows or should know not to go to the dealership for repairs, because they want to push you to buy a new car. For example they quoted over $5K for a repair to my parents for the same repair with the same OEM parts (necessary in this case to pass emissions in CA) that an independent mechanic did for 1/3rd the cost (I warned my parents, they went to the dealer anyway, and got stuck with a large "diagnostics" bill that any car guy could diagnosis over the phone.). That's one way to encourage new car buying.

Another way they try to make you buy a new car is blocking non-dealers from messing with the electronics that are attached to every system now. They also get to decide when to not support the electronic, like smartphone makers deciding not to provide security updates after 2-3 years or so, so your new car will be obsoleted on their terms. All the automakers are in on this.

Iron Bars wrote:

It is a crime that the Toyota Hilux is not available in the US. Turbo-Diesel, good gas mileage, abundance of parts and a reputation for toughness.

Yes. I travel all over the world, mostly in "developing countries", and they're everywhere, both the pickups and the SUVs. Cities, rough rock roads in the mountains, tropical swamps, ... those things keep going.