How are elites able to dope without being caught (not trolling)?

snarkatinesid1 wrote:

*** NB read The Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton... there are as many ways as there are athletes.

It is a good book about the PEDs and ways to avoid testing positive, no doubt about it.

But regardless of Ty Hamilton's account, sooner or later, every doper gets popped. It's not that the testers suddenly become Einsteins, it has more to do with the odds over the long run. The longer you play hide-and-seek, the more likely it is that you'll slip up or they'll get lucky.

This video goes into the actual science of drug testing and how doped athletes pass them

https://youtu.be/HQLweuRSD9M

short answer - micro dosing it passes through the system quickly so you can cheat and never fail a test

Most never get caught.

They retire before this happens.

Many look forward to retirement because they can now stop taking drugs.

Some don't consider what they are doing as illegal (calling it a gray area).

Here is how the last game is played. Coaches or team doctor tells athletes to start taking a drug (which will improve their performance, but it is not on the list of banned substances = so therefore not technically illegal).

Athlete takes drug. Performance improves. Is it a performance enhancing drug? Yes, of course it is. that is why they are taking it- to enhance performance. but it is not on the list of banned substances - yet. True, but you are taking a drug for condition that you do not have (like asthma or a heart condition). A doctor has prescribed it to you knowing you do not have the condition. Its only purpose is to improve you performance. Is this cheating? Yes and the doctor who prescribed it should be sanctioned as well. WADA finds out athletes are taking the drug. Adds it to the list. Athlete stops taking it. and the games continues. next drug.

the above story is exactly what happened with the drug that Maria Sharapova got busted for and i know an athlete (who is by the way against PED in sports and considers herself a clean athlete) who admitting to taking it before it was added to the list because it helped open up her lungs etc. and stopped taking it once it got added to the list. again, i ask, is this cheating? YES but those doing the taking do not think that it is and this is the real problem in our sport.

i think part of the solution is every athlete should have to reveal what they are taking no matter if it is illegal or not.

and athletes, if you are taking something/anything you must consider that you are a cheating unless what you are taking is for a real condition...and if it is, you should not be afraid to reveal that for the sake of a clean sport.

Most are using PED's.

Not all.

A brother of a friend of mine played special teams on the Chicago Bears for a few years. He said all the trainers from High school on gave him Sterioids, PEDS. He said its a total black underworld. He said the key was communication and so they all knew the latest; all knew how to avoid testing. He was also a shot putter.

Not every ‘condition’ is a cut and dry, you either have it or don’t scenario . For example, what is asthma? It’s defined as a condition of inflammation of the airways which become narrow and/or produce extra mucous making it harder to breathe. Ok, literally every persons airway will have some degree of inflammation or mucous at some point, and “making it difficult to breathe” is pretty subjective. So yeah, one doctor could say you have asthma. While the other doesn’t. The same goes for almost any condition. Difference references ranges of tsh and T3 for example (thyroid).

This is why the video above makes a very good point. Anti-doping laws only ensure there will be vast inequity, it ensures there will be cheaters and non-cheaters. It ensures some will get medical prescriptions and TUEs and other won’t. It’s honestly hard to support a system that you know 100% guarantees clean, honest athletes will be at a huge disadvantage. It’s amazing their isn’t more backlash against WADA. I get that in theory, anti doping is ideal if it were perfect, but in practice, it’s almost intentionally ensuring that honest rule-followers never get a fair shot. In any other industry, we’d never stand for that. It’s just something I find odd.

good point...i honestly don't know about any of these drugs as i am not on them.

i do know the girl i referenced did not have a heart condition. so there is no justification for her to be on that drug.

and i do know that Salazar (according to a former athlete) had his athletes go to once special doctor who would prescribe and did have his athletes run up stair to help exaggerate their condition. Even athletes who ran for him admitted they did not have asthma - but got the prescription.

so my conclusion is these people are playing with the threshold to favor themselves = cheating.

I honestly wonder how many elite athletes really have medical issues? like what %

cause it sure seems like the cheaters are simply taking advantage of the system.

57% admit to taking PED (so don't take my word for it - that many are cheating, take theirs)

bannned i got wrote:

centro is a max 3:34 guy now,

In or near lane 2 for half the race, he ran at least 15 meters beyond 1500 at the Trials. So he actually covered 1500 in 3:33. He also ran nearly 4:00/mile pace for the first 1100, before dropping a 52.x last lap. So 3:33 is obviously not the fastest he can run in ideal conditions. Same goes for Hocker. He ran as close to 1500 meters as a person can realistically run, but he ran his last lap more than half a second faster than Centro.

A guy who can run 42 (300), 62, 59, 52, -- on a hot day, in the third championship round -- is probably in 3:31 shape. Expect to see them in the Olympic Finals, if not on the podium.

As for who dopes, I don't know. Probably most people in the finals are doing something shady.

notworstyearever wrote:

1. Is wada and the ioc covering up positive tests for image purposes (bolt testing positive for example)

Probably more significant is national testing bodies (eg USADA) are more willing to accept excuses than the international body (AIU). The AIU has criticized the USADA over several issues such as accepting tainted meat, courtesy phone calls for OOC tests etc. Most of the recent high profile busts have been by the AIU rather then USADA. I believe Shelby Houlihan's agent argued that if it was the USADA who caught her she would have been let off.

Note: This is not knocking the USADA specifically, I believe all national bodies are equally lenient for their own athletes.

notworstyearever wrote:

Most are doping but only a small amount are busted. How come?

1. Is wada and the ioc covering up positive tests for image purposes (bolt testing positive for example)

2. Are their new drugs we don't know about that are untestable?

3. New masking agents wada doesn't know about?

4. Complete corruption? (Testing officials being paid off)

5. Short half lives for modern peds? (Only staying in system for a few days). If within half life window athlete has a whereabouts issue if a tester shows up. After two missed tests they slow down the doping regime?

Want 100% srs answers.

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty. You need to take Law 101

michiganrunner55 wrote:

notworstyearever wrote:

Most are doping but only a small amount are busted. How come?

1. Is wada and the ioc covering up positive tests for image purposes (bolt testing positive for example)

2. Are their new drugs we don't know about that are untestable?

3. New masking agents wada doesn't know about?

4. Complete corruption? (Testing officials being paid off)

5. Short half lives for modern peds? (Only staying in system for a few days). If within half life window athlete has a whereabouts issue if a tester shows up. After two missed tests they slow down the doping regime?

Want 100% srs answers.

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty. You need to take Law 101

Have you ever heard of common sense?

Flojo never tested positive but common sense says she doped. Same with Marita koch.

Authentic Mexican food truck wrote:

why do you ask? wrote:

Is Sydney McLaughlin doping?

Is Femke Bol doping?

Yes Femke Bol is doping.

notworstyearever wrote:

michiganrunner55 wrote:

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty. You need to take Law 101

Have you ever heard of common sense?

Flojo never tested positive but common sense says she doped. Same with Marita koch.

And let's not forget Marion Jones who never failed a test.

These guys are pushing 40..do you expect them to get faster? I wish the track and field community would spend more time supporting the sport and less time talking about drug use. Let wada worry about drug use

Yeah the infamous Dr. Brown. Exactly people are operating in the grey zone. The perfect example is Galen Rupp. Kara Gaucher and Steve magness (NOP whistleblowers) stated they saw Rupp using testosterone cream by orders of Salazar (who was caught rubbing t cream on his sons) Excessive long runs can cause low t (a common problem in marathoners ex Ryan hall had to retire due to depleted t levels) weightlifting counters those effects, but if Galen already has natural low t levels and has depleted t levels cause by excessive cardio than the use testosterone cream will go unnoticed in any drug test since it’s a ratio test (testosterone to epitestosterone) In Salazar’s mind that’s not cheating he’s simply bringing galen’s t levels to normal with the help of drugs.

It certainly is odd how performances are better than ever, but no one is getting caught......

I dont think anyone was caught at the Giro

I dont think anyone was caught so far at the Tour de France

And I dont know of anyone caught for PEDs in Eugene at the trials (Houlihan was caught before Eugene, and Richardson for pot, which is not performance enhancing).

Authentic Mexican food truck wrote:

why do you ask? wrote:

Is Sydney McLaughlin doping?

Is Femke Bol doping?

She looked shocked at her new NR time last Diamond League.

OppositesAttract wrote:

I have the exact opposite question: How do we catch anybody?

Many substances athletes 'dope' with are also made within the body. It's not like testing for cocaine. I find it pretty amazing we can somehow distinguish between exogenous and endogenous.

For upcoming athletes, they literally only get tested at events. And with short clearance rates for most substances, you have to pretty careless to fail an in-competition test. I honestly don't know how athletes ever fail in-competition actually.

For regular testing, even 'random' drug testing has a one-hour window. So athletes can dose 23 hrs at minimum before every test. So just take something that clears in under 23 hrs.

So how does anyone fail?

Despite that, I actually think most are clean. Doping is essentially the honor system. And I optimistically believe most people follow the code.

How does anyone fail?

I could be wrong, but I thought they could random test any time in the 24 hours if they see you? That is, your agreed window is 6 to 7 am but they can rock up to your pm training and test you not just 6 to 7 am. If they can find you that is.

I was there to see it! It was amazing! All WRs are suspect these days ... but to her defense, she has Always been hyper-talented and she has followed a steady path of progress with diligent professional training.

It is more absurd when people suddenly pop PRs at age 38 (Regina Jacobs) or when they suddenly come out of nowhere and drop all of the other pros effortlessly (Riccardo Ricco, cycling), when women look like men (read: Faust's Gold, about the amazing East German doping system), or when the margin of victory is insanely large (ahem, some of Indurain's Banesto performances), or when they are close to others who are known dopers / closely associate with sketchy docs (Ferrari / Armstrong), or when they protest too vociferously (Armstrong - who brought the wrath of his lawyers/defamation/career destruction efforts down on anyone who dared challenge his purity).

I think that’s technically true. But how often does that happen? Athletes don’t have to put exactly where they are all the time right? I thought they just had to keep there whereabouts updated for the 1 hour window?

I don’t actually know though.

A lot of athletes seem to fail in-competition or during their regularly scheduled time (like Shelby). I just can’t understand how they fail this way. If a drug tester randomly finds you at Disneyland and you’re totally caught off guard and test positive, then I get it, but otherwise, it just seems careless to fail. I guess that’s why I’m prone to believing their ‘excuses’.