If this is true I feel bad for Donovan. No way should he be running if he has a stress fracture.
If this is true I feel bad for Donovan. No way should he be running if he has a stress fracture.
jda9ball wrote:
100% agree. He even admitted after the race that he didn't have a plan. This is what happens when you just "wing it". Yes, you can argue that it has worked for him for many years...but eventually these things will happen when you don't have a race plan, or any sort of strategy. Very stupid race tactics that he executed.
A minor stress-reaction is nothing for an 800m runner. If this truly was the issue, then why didn't Julian have him let Jewett go & stay in the chase pack & just out-kick someone for 2nd or 3rd in the final 100?
The foot wasn't the issue. It was poor racing.
This comment reeks of someone who doesn't really understand the effect of an injury mentally and competing at this level.
First of all a "minor stress reaction is nothing for an 800m runner". Well we don't know how minor or major it is, I just know he has one - a stress fracture is a broken foot - it's serious. If you think it was so simple as "let him run for 2nd or 3rd" then I really don't know why I'm wasting my time even addressing you.
I'm kind of smiling about the "lack of plan" - what other plan would there be exactly? Jewett led the first lap in 50.61 with Brazier in second place - what exactly reeks of poor execution? Where else should he have been? He's not even in the wrong place down the back straight - he just get's gapped because he's not physically right. He's not out of position the entire race - his foot just fails him. Have you ever tried to run at 95% of your max with a busted foot? Then shu$-up.
Brazier wasn't "outkicking" anyone yesterday for a spot in a 1.43 flat race. He didn't make an excuse and I'm not making an excuse for him because being compromised at this level of performance is a thing and it matters.
Bad race...it happens wrote:
Fasterer wrote:
No, he had a hitch in the semis too.
Just watch his head bob right off the start of the semis and especially the finals.
Re-watch the race and look closely.
Right before the start he's making some strange stretches and already looks concerned, not focused on the race but his body instead.
After the gun about 40 meters in, his head bob begins and he's got a noticeable hitch in his stride.
When he pushes hard at 300 (not typically a good place to spend too much effort!) and hits his fastest pace of the race, his stride looks more balanced, but his face tells he's working too hard.
Once Jewett surges again from 400 to 500 Brazier's stride form falls apart again and his head is bobbing way more than the others and he's completely asymmetrical in his stride.
By the time he's coming off the final turn his face is in complete agony, he falls apart even more, and he shuts it down to jog in.
His asymmetry and head bob is very telling of a foot issue.
His form was definitely off as was apparent in the heats and the final.
Pete Julian most definitely carries some blame here. Poor coaching on tactics (DB even said they had no plan!), health and form.
Covid disruption has something to do with his peaking in the wrong years but damn!...He should have gotten DB to the line healthy!!
He had NO hitch in the semis, grow a pair and use your brain. He had a terrible race and he knows it.
You are blind. And a bad analyst and all around full. Just FYI.
Brazier 100% did not look right in the semis and he was obviously favoring that foot. In the semis Hoppel didn't look good either and I wasn't sure he was making the team. Jewett really put the hurt on those guys out there. Idk what Murphy was doing when he was with NOP but it obviously didn't work.
+1
Can't believe all the posters (or maybe it's just a couple, but they're repetitive) claiming there was nothing wrong with Brazier's stride. My wife and I were watching the semi, and we both simultaneously said something along the lines of "What the heck is wrong with Brazier's stride?!" It was clear in the last 200 of the semi that he was limping (and, as a result, working way harder than he should have at that pace). We both figured at that point that he wouldn't make the team.
Sure enough, same thing in the final. He had a clear hitch in his stride, and I'd argue that even after the race, as he was walking away, he was favoring one side.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Around 5.29pm yesterday I, like we all were, witnessed the single most stunning moment of the trials as Donovan Brazier completely capitulated in the final 180 meters letting all but the leader pass him before clearly giving up in 800m final.
No upset will top this one - a young reigning world champ that has dominated the event since 2019 and was most certainly in the mix for the gold medal in Tokyo. A lot of speculation as to how this happened. Was it the heat (94) Was it the pace set by Jewett (50.6/1.15.8)? Well all of those are unlikely given the ability and experience of Brazier, but I heard last night after the race on good authority that Brazier has essentially a broken foot (stress fracture top of the foot near a metatarsal joint) which has compromised him all summer. It's the same foot that forced him to end his 2020 season early - the same foot that genius coach Pete Julian allowed him to race on with plantar fasciitis.
Before I get the LRC "source" "where's the proof" - you aren't going to get either. Of course I am not going to mention a source and the proof I guess will eventually come from group. But if you doubt this then just I'll point to my history of breaking stories on these boards (including DeGrasse pulling out of the world champs back in 2017 where I was sh$tcanned by a bunch of losers before the story was confirmed 48 hours later).
Of course Brazier is a champ and has not mentioned this directly but he did allude to in the Flotrack interview after the race. Jonathon Gault asks him if he was healthy and if anything else attributed to the result to which Brazier replies that he's "had some things bugging him but there's things that champions overcome". It's a stoic answer - but I don't think many champions can overcome something like this.
A think a lot of attention needs to be focused on boy wonder Pete Julian here. How did they not manage to figure out this issue in the most important year of his career (by far). As mentioned Julian has a history of letting Brazier "push through" or run on injuries (the p-f in 2020) - did this happen here? Many people could visibly see that Brazier wasn't himself this season - he did not look as convincing as a world champion in an Olympic year should look in races such as the Portland Track Festival where after Julian condescendingly pointed out that an athlete like Brazier isn't peaking for races like the PTF, and tried to feed us junk like Tonatiu Lopez is the hottest 800m runner in the world and Brazier still beat him. Well sure, but there is a difference between a guy a step behind because he is rounding into form and someone visibly under duress which is what Brazier has looked like all summer.
Anyway this is the situation. Feel very bad for Brazier and he handled it no excuses. Maybe the Brojos can swing their figurative dongs and try and get a response from Peter J to confirm this but there you have it - poor dude was running on a broken foot. Massive bummer
Clearly, a huge disappointment not having him make the team. Yes, it was obvious to those who know the sport that DB was not 100%. Whether it was lack of training this season due to the foot or something else, we'll know soon enough.
I will however disagree with you on blaming PJ, and it seems you have an issue with him. Accusing a coach of having his athlete's "push through" injuries without any knowledge and or proof is speculative at best. Maybe DB pushed himself too hard and put a lot of stress on himself to make the team this year, thus neglecting his health. The coach/athlete relationship at the elite level is a partnership, if the athlete wants to "push through" training and racing while not being 100% that's their choice. The coach can advise otherwise, but ultimately it's the athlete's decision. Not to mention, this is an Olympic year, and unless you're "injured", and not "Hurt" (there's a difference) you need to "push through" the pain. It didn't look as though DB was injured (no limp and or favoring the foot), he did however look somewhat unfit which most likely was caused by missing time training.
Sorry! you can't blame the coach for that. DB has had great success working with PJ, you shouldn't negatively judge him because you don't like him.
Heady guy wrote:
Are you all too young to remember Holman or Webb or Favor? All 3 could run a world leading time one week and then get 8th in a high stress race a week later.
Whaaat??, He set American record in the 800 meters in high stress race called the World Championships in 2019.
To make him out as a head caseis absolutely wrong.
crisscrosscountry wrote:
I'll add fuel to the speculative fire and also note that he seemed to be running in different spikes than he has been previously. I couldn't quite tell what they were but they were certainly not Dragonflies or Victories and could've been a pair selected because of his foot issues.
Looked like Brazier and Murphy both opted for sprinting spikes if I’m not mistaken.
Anyone can blow up at any time. A lot of people are saying a 1:42 doesn't just blow up like that. The sport is unpredictable. The day is unpredictable. That's why the trials are great. It's unfortunate, but he seems mature enough to be able to come back from it and be back with even more determination in 2024
alfredo wrote:
Sure enough, same thing in the final. He had a clear hitch in his stride, and I'd argue that even after the race, as he was walking away, he was favoring one side.
In the last 100m of the Final, he definitely appears to have a slight limp down the final stretch.
So you obviously don't remember Holman.
Clearly something was wrong with him other than not being as fit.
Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniE76TaOhE
and tell me there are 3 guys in the US that can beat him without something wrong with his body (injury or illness). He wasn't beaten on equal ground.
Heady guy wrote:
Are you all too young to remember Holman or Webb or Favor? All 3 could run a world leading time one week and then get 8th in a high stress race a week later.
Keni Harrison? Dan O'Brien (although that was solely on him).
oldoldrunner wrote:
Heady guy wrote:
Are you all too young to remember Holman or Webb or Favor? All 3 could run a world leading time one week and then get 8th in a high stress race a week later.
Whaaat??, He set American record in the 800 meters in high stress race called the World Championships in 2019.
To make him out as a head caseis absolutely wrong.
Being a "head case" is not a one way street. First off, even world champions can become "head cases", sometimes out of the blue. There is a long list of elite champions who all of sudden lose their psychological edge. Second, Brazier may have been hurt or at least not nearly as fit as he wanted to be for this race. Not all champions respond to this sort of adversity in the same way. It seems clear based on his public persona and even the NBC fluff piece on fishing that for him. "heavy is the head that wears the crown." I think we are seeing the combination of a Brazier well off peak fitness and strength and one who then panicked and decompensated a bit and did not even approach the best he could have done under the circumstances. This does not mean he does not have championships in his future.
Heady guy wrote:
So you obviously don't remember Holman.
They are 2 different people. Not all black people are the same, even if they are both light-skinned.
The arguments on this thread are not mutually exclusive.
Not in 2019 shape b/c of nagging injury - OK
Didn't have a race plan, not the best race - OK
Desire to participate in an Olympic year precludes full recovery time from injury - OK
If a coach's job was to sit every athlete that wasn't physically 100% I don't think there would be many races left to watch. That is a wicked problem. The choice doesn't always work out.
JBaller33 wrote:
Brazier clearly wasn't himself and the hitch in his stride was present in both the semifinal and final. A stress fracture in the foot would make sense. Makes me respect the guy even more that he gutted it out and tried to make the Olympic team. That's how much it meant to him.
Julian clearly isn't working for middle distance runners. Brazier ran 1:43.55 while still in college, so Julian has effectively improved his best time by 1.2 second in 5 years and gotten Brazier injured a lot. I think that Brazier needs to take a page out of Clayton Murphy's book and go back to his college coaches in Francique and Henry (Hoppel has also never left his college coach). He has to see that they just developed another world class 800 meter runner in Athing Mu.
When you are running 1:43 there is not a lot of room for improvement. At most you would expect a 1:40 (WR) so the improvement is about 1/2 way to that.
Wise Old Man wrote:
oldoldrunner wrote:
Whaaat??, He set American record in the 800 meters in high stress race called the World Championships in 2019.
To make him out as a head caseis absolutely wrong.
Being a "head case" is not a one way street. First off, even world champions can become "head cases", sometimes out of the blue. There is a long list of elite champions who all of sudden lose their psychological edge. Second, Brazier may have been hurt or at least not nearly as fit as he wanted to be for this race. Not all champions respond to this sort of adversity in the same way. It seems clear based on his public persona and even the NBC fluff piece on fishing that for him. "heavy is the head that wears the crown." I think we are seeing the combination of a Brazier well off peak fitness and strength and one who then panicked and decompensated a bit and did not even approach the best he could have done under the circumstances. This does not mean he does not have championships in his future.
Could you make up anymore bs?
Luv2Run wrote:
JBaller33 wrote:
Brazier clearly wasn't himself and the hitch in his stride was present in both the semifinal and final. A stress fracture in the foot would make sense. Makes me respect the guy even more that he gutted it out and tried to make the Olympic team. That's how much it meant to him.
Julian clearly isn't working for middle distance runners. Brazier ran 1:43.55 while still in college, so Julian has effectively improved his best time by 1.2 second in 5 years and gotten Brazier injured a lot. I think that Brazier needs to take a page out of Clayton Murphy's book and go back to his college coaches in Francique and Henry (Hoppel has also never left his college coach). He has to see that they just developed another world class 800 meter runner in Athing Mu.
When you are running 1:43 there is not a lot of room for improvement. At most you would expect a 1:40 (WR) so the improvement is about 1/2 way to that.
It's more about the injuries for me though.
