Will high school kids skip school teams to run club?

With the masses, no.

With the top kids, or kids whos parents want them to succeed, yes.

$1500-$2500 / year for a top private coach is well worth the trade off for parents trying to get the kids into good colleges. They are happy to pay and honestly the cost is nothing compared to club soccer, golf lessons, tennis lesson, private tutors for school or ACT/SAT prep, aau basketball, aau baseball, aau volleyball, you name its. Every single sport has gone this way, except for track / xc. The time is finally here. Private coaches are getting results. You can't deny that.

It is a good thing.

More and more open / unattached / club races will pop up, like the ones at VA Beach this past indoor season.

More and more kids will want to succeed and will leave their crappy high school coaches who only care about "regional points" and over race them in the 1600 for 14 straight weeks and throw them into every relay possible to carry their crap teams.

How many Power 5 Basketball commits play for their school? Very, very few. They are on AAU teams, they play prep/travel ball. Every swimmer, tennis, golfer, volleyball, baseball, basketball player is this way. The only sport I can think of that hasn't done this already is football.

I think Tony's predictions are right on. I'm not sure how long it will take, but I think there could be a day when the top teenagers in any sport ignore the team assembled by the school district they happen to live in. I remember talking to a guy whole really knew baseball and would have been in HS in the '80s. He said you had to make a choice a couple times in your early 'career'. If you were good and it became an actual career, there was no question what to do, but if you were 15 and playing for the school meant not playing American Legion, then you could only do one or the other. I think it's been quite a while since HS baseball, basketball, swimming, and soccer coaches didn't have access to the best players who attended that school. The coaches may not know this - my HS track coach never met me and knew neither that I existed nor that I was the best distance runner at school.

I don't know how long it will be before this really takes hold. I know extremely little about this Hobbs guy, but it doesn't seem like he has anything to do with his school's track team. Lukas V never ran in a high school track meet, although he did some in XC. I bet the XC meets were low-key for him as he was peaking for Foot Locker, at which you by definition run unattached.

Nothing needs to change for distance specialists as far as event organization. From 5k up, road races are plentiful. The top tier get press. You can go to Peachtree and the big 15k in Florida in that part of the country. Falmouth, Beach-to-Beacon, and the New Haven 20k are in another. Houston's half and full both attract a real field and are open to amateurs. Both Bay-to-Breakers and the San Jose Turkey Trot used to be big deals but not sure now.... CIM is near there too. Carlsbad 5k needs no introduction. There are half marathons by the Rock 'n' Roll series all over. These are examples (there are many more: Grandma's, Cherry Blossom...) of events that anyone you're trying to impress (agent, recruiter, sponsor, coach) will trust the results of. They can find it online and know the course and times are accurate, which may not be true of your random local race that nobody 100 miles away has ever heard of. If these are the events you're best at, you're already set for races.

Most likely. Already happening with softball. I know a ton of girls who haven’t played for their middle school team instead playing for their travel teams. High school as well. So it makes sense it’d happen with other sports.

I think it will be more of the norm going forward, just like baseball travel teams.

Being an employee of the local school system has nothing to do with whether you are a good coach or not.

There are SO many horrible "coaches," teachers just doing the bare minimum for the extra coaching supplement; that I see why parents seek out someone that actually knows WTF they are talking about.

I think OP meant to say “will rich, white kids pursue athletics by joining track clubs.”

He could also mean, but would never mean “will the inner city youth transition to other sports now that they don’t have track”

EZ10Miler wrote:

I think it will be more of the norm going forward, just like baseball travel teams.

Being an employee of the local school system has nothing to do with whether you are a good coach or not.

There are SO many horrible "coaches," teachers just doing the bare minimum for the extra coaching supplement; that I see why parents seek out someone that actually knows WTF they are talking about.

How do you know there are so many horrible coaches doing the bare minimum to receive the coaching supplement? Did you conduct a survey? You're stating a theory as a fact.

Running HS XC and track is a great experience. Maybe parents of elite runners that have running experience, might consider coaching their child, but it would be ridiculous for anyone else.

Many AAU and travel teams are made up of recruited kids who are assembled and put into tournaments. Often there's no development. Exposure yes, skill development no. NBA coaches and some players have been speaking out against the AAU system.

For non revenue sports such as track this could be worse. Club coaches often promise scholarships but how many are there for track and field athletes?

The Newbury situation is more of a hybrid. It’s a high school team, with a coach who teaches at the high school, but seems to be on a path of skipping the school meets to run open meets. Some blurred lines there and wonder if other top teams will follow.

In a few years, the club system may take charge unless school sports do the following:

Hire experienced and certified coaches (no more giving jobs to unqualified hobby jogging teachers looking for extra income)

Get rid of archaic and dumb rules such as non contact periods, bans on off season training, and limits on practice

All states need to convert to the international metric standard distances. No more 1600, 3200, 3 mile XC, and the like. 1500, 3000, and 5K XC need to be nationally standardized.

State high school federations need to recognize events like NXN and the former NB Nationals as true national title events and allow athletes to represent their schools instead of some made up club. Kids take pride in their school connections and shouldn't have to compete as Rocky Mountain XC because some grey haired ball sports mavens want their championship to be a pinnacle event.

in the club wrote:

The Newbury situation is more of a hybrid. It’s a high school team, with a coach who teaches at the high school, but seems to be on a path of skipping the school meets to run open meets. Some blurred lines there and wonder if other top teams will follow.

I looked at the Newbury Park track schedule for 2019 and it looked typical for a HS. I didn't see a single "open" meet for the outdoor season.

Private school coaches are often no better. In fact, they can be shockingly stupid and apathetic since they often get nothing or next to nothing and are required to coach a sport. They also are known for touching boys where they pee.

pinesol II wrote:

No, not gonna see high school kids skipping HS track, possible exceptions in some major metro areas.

Where would a club find a facility?

Coaches rule their facilities like personal fiefdoms, and if it's not the coach, then the facility manager hates the idea of anything out of the ordinary that creates scary scary liability (even when you come with appropriate insurance).

Swimming is different as facility managers are keenly motivated to keep their expensive and hungry asset (the pool) in service as many hours as they can.

Soccer and lacrosse, just need a field. Not that expensive to bring in lines, flags, goals if you need to

Cross country needs no facility and there are open tracks everywhere in the US. It is not a limiting factor for the private coaching Ponzi schemes.

ocracoke wrote:

pinesol II wrote:

No, not gonna see high school kids skipping HS track, possible exceptions in some major metro areas.

Where would a club find a facility?

Coaches rule their facilities like personal fiefdoms, and if it's not the coach, then the facility manager hates the idea of anything out of the ordinary that creates scary scary liability (even when you come with appropriate insurance).

Swimming is different as facility managers are keenly motivated to keep their expensive and hungry asset (the pool) in service as many hours as they can.

Soccer and lacrosse, just need a field. Not that expensive to bring in lines, flags, goals if you need to

Cross country needs no facility and there are open tracks everywhere in the US. It is not a limiting factor for the private coaching Ponzi schemes.

Do you know what a Ponzi scheme is?

SDSU Aztec wrote:

EZ10Miler wrote:

I think it will be more of the norm going forward, just like baseball travel teams.

Being an employee of the local school system has nothing to do with whether you are a good coach or not.

There are SO many horrible "coaches," teachers just doing the bare minimum for the extra coaching supplement; that I see why parents seek out someone that actually knows WTF they are talking about.

How do you know there are so many horrible coaches doing the bare minimum to receive the coaching supplement? Did you conduct a survey? You're stating a theory as a fact.

.

Because there are many many terrible coaches. It is, indeed, a fact. Been around the sport for a long long time, and there are a ton of really bad HS teachers in charge of track and XC teams that know little to none about the sport. No survey needed.

It’s really interesting to me that’s he is listed as the head track coach for the high school and they have a chance at winning a CIF championship, but since his top runners are skipping the meet, they won’t. I would think the head track coach would be interested in having the track team compete for school titles rather than have his runners compete at a meet that has nothing to do with the school. I wonder how the school feels or how the other kids and coaches on the track team feel. A CIF title is a big deal in CA.

James Seth Demoor wrote:

In a few years, the club system may take charge unless school sports do the following:

Hire experienced and certified coaches (no more giving jobs to unqualified hobby jogging teachers looking for extra income)

Get rid of archaic and dumb rules such as non contact periods, bans on off season training, and limits on practice

All states need to convert to the international metric standard distances. No more 1600, 3200, 3 mile XC, and the like. 1500, 3000, and 5K XC need to be nationally standardized.

State high school federations need to recognize events like NXN and the former NB Nationals as true national title events and allow athletes to represent their schools instead of some made up club. Kids take pride in their school connections and shouldn't have to compete as Rocky Mountain XC because some grey haired ball sports mavens want their championship to be a pinnacle event.

Hard to disagree with any of this. Probably the only slight disagreement would be on off season training limits and such. While it can be limiting, you always have to look at the other side where some coaches would just grind kids into the dirt all year. The rules are in place to prevent abuses, not limit performance. I'm sure any kid wanting to put in more can do so, just not in an organized practice.

in the club wrote:

It’s really interesting to me that’s he is listed as the head track coach for the high school and they have a chance at winning a CIF championship, but since his top runners are skipping the meet, they won’t. I would think the head track coach would be interested in having the track team compete for school titles rather than have his runners compete at a meet that has nothing to do with the school. I wonder how the school feels or how the other kids and coaches on the track team feel. A CIF title is a big deal in CA.

That would be very small thinking on the coaches part, to put HIS interests above his runners that would benefit more from a meet with a higher level of competition. Cudos to him for being the bigger man and letting those kids do what they need to do.

EZ10Miler wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

How do you know there are so many horrible coaches doing the bare minimum to receive the coaching supplement? Did you conduct a survey? You're stating a theory as a fact.

.

Because there are many many terrible coaches. It is, indeed, a fact. Been around the sport for a long long time, and there are a ton of really bad HS teachers in charge of track and XC teams that know little to none about the sport. No survey needed.

This thread initially brought up comparison & contrast between swimming clubs & track & field clubs. There are a need for swimming lessons and swimming clubs. There is definitely a case to made for swimming clubs for developing swimmers while swimmers are elementary school age and middle school age. I have seen swimmers skip a year or two of high school swimming for club swimming to end up no higher than NCAA D-2. In general that does not make sense but to each their own. There is a need for T&F clubs. Most states do not have javelin &/or hammer throw as standard events. It makes no sense U.S. is not great at those two events. Club T&F can help there. This thing about coaches: Were you a high school 4:15 1600m/one mile guy or a high school 5:15 1600m/one mile guy? Coaches sometimes tell kids truth they do not want to hear and kid then thinks coach did not see a lad's true great potential. I know athletes who believe they are or were great 100m athletes. Coach wanted the athletes for 400m and kid thinks coach is stupid. Were you a 4:39 miler in 9th grade and completed high school with a 4:31 one mile personal best? That is not evidence of poor coaching.

Isn’t it a high school team and isn’t he the coach of the the team? I always thought the goal of the high school team was to win their games or meets. If you’re a personal coach, I get it, but if you coach a team, for the high school, I would think that would be your priority. There are probably 100 kids on a high school team that would all love to be a part of a championship team. Putting THE SCHOOL’S interest above a handful of kid’s interests may be what his job is. That was the initial premise of the thread. Will this be a trend?