Fermin Cacho closed the 92 Barcelona 1500m in 50 seconds

Pretty much all the top finishers closed in 50 point. El Basir (2nd) I think actually ran the fastest last lap. Yeah, a lot of dopers in the race.

Coevett wrote:

How quickly this sport went from Bannister, Herb Elliott, Snell....to this level of dirtiness and corruption.

This is the reason her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth gave a title of Sir to a African Mohamed Farah.

Note that Somalia is considered as an Arab Muslim country.

Les wrote:

Pretty much all the top finishers closed in 50 point. El Basir (2nd) I think actually ran the fastest last lap. Yeah, a lot of dopers in the race.

I never give accusations without proofs.

If El Basir did doping why he only reached the semi-final in World Championship 1991?

I wouldn't be surprised if the other two Kenyans were paid off too. It's a mystery why they stayed off the pace. And Morceli likely was bribed too. Nobody has ever explained how he came to run such a poor race at the height of his powers.

Chesire looks 100% a pacer in that race. He did tirn around twice at the start to check if Cacho was comfortably tucked in behind him, and then on the final bend inexplicably lets him through on the inside.

Coevett wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if the other two Kenyans were paid off too. It's a mystery why they stayed off the pace. And Morceli likely was bribed too. Nobody has ever explained how he came to run such a poor race at the height of his powers.

Chesire looks 100% a pacer in that race. He did tirn around twice at the start to check if Cacho was comfortably tucked in behind him, and then on the final bend inexplicably lets him through on the inside.

And why didn't Morceli finish second? In 1984 how much money did cram and Ovett take to let Coe win? More or less than the cost of covering up the positive test results?

Sure I guess Morceli might have been lying about a leg injury but doesn't that seem a heck of a lot more likely than bribery? A gold medal had to be worth at least 500k or Morceli. Through on the value to the rest of the fielf and you are talking absurd amounts of cash.

Coevett wrote:

And Morceli likely was bribed too. Nobody has ever explained how he came to run such a poor race at the height of his powers.

Explanation:

Morcelli wasn't at his best in 92 and he got badly positioned on the last lap

mikehammer wrote:

Coevett wrote:

And Morceli likely was bribed too. Nobody has ever explained how he came to run such a poor race at the height of his powers.

Explanation:

Morcelli wasn't at his best in 92 and he got badly positioned on the last lap

OK.

Morceli Stuttgart 93.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT6pQ-Md2ss

50.62 to run 3.34.24

So Cacho runs 50.4 (hand-timed because he is 2.39.6 at the bell) to run 3.40.12 (3.40.0 ht) - clearly Morceli's is more incredible given the finishing time is way faster - but Cacho's last 300 and the way he explodes off the final turn with the Spanish crowd going insane is pretty good.

Centro in Rio - I mean yes it won an Olympic title but when you put it in context with say Morceli in '93 or even Cacho in '96 is pretty average. 2.49.1 ht at the bell so he doesn't run much under 51 in a 3.50.0 race (maybe something like 50.8)

Let's dispel the myth of Rui Silva in Athens - yes he has by far the fastest last lap of anyone and honestly if he hadn't been in such an idiotic position at the bell he might have even won this race. But he is 2.43.2 ht at the bell and runs 3.34.68 (or to keep it simple around 3.34.5 ht) - this means his last lap was closer to 51.3 so all this chat of sub 50 is complete BS. He does make up a large distance on El G who ran 51.91, but don't forget he did run 1.46.6 for his last 800m.

For the record, the fastest last 400m I have seen in an elite 1500m race was Alex Kipchirchir at the World Cup of Athletics in Athens 2006 which he won in 3.52.6 and ran 49.8 for the last 400m - I watched this from the side of the track. Again, take that in context given how slow the first 1100m was but technically if someone can find a pro race where someone ran faster over the last lap then then I would be surprised - even in really slow races approaching 50.0 is really tough.

So for me it's still Morceli because to close in 50.6 in a 3.34 race is just absolutely mind blowing.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Let's dispel the myth of Rui Silva in Athens - yes he has by far the fastest last lap of anyone and honestly if he hadn't been in such an idiotic position at the bell he might have even won this race.

Oh yeah, like Heshko and Estevez did.

Abdi bile 3rd

A man who should have won more was unlucky with his nationality at the time

Coevett wrote:

The infamous Fuentos essentially confirmed last week he was doping Cacho for the 92 Olympics. It's unclear if even Morceli, let alone the other Africans had access to EPO at this stage, but Cacho was likely on it for some time already. If so, this was probably the last time that the biggest doper in a distance final was a European.

Do you have a link to this 'confirmation'?

I think one African country (not East African) was right on the endurance doping money by 1990.

Certainly a very thorough Spanish strategy is laid bare by this thread - EPO plus bribing most of the rest of the field to ensure the home victory. Not sure if this included some doped guys who took the bribes - moral minefield out there.

mikehammer wrote:

Abdi bile 3rd

A man who should have won more was unlucky with his nationality at the time

+1

Jim Ryun insists he ran the last 400 of US vs West Germany in 1967 in sub 50. Unfortunately, no 1100 split was taken so no proof. He did legitimately run 36 for the last 300. Pretty awesome in and of itself.

Need to throw a legendary name from the past too in the most important of races.

1976 - John Walker runs 37.8 for the last 300m to win in 3.39.18

Not quite as fast as Cacho in '92 over the last 300m but pretty comparable given the race was a second faster overall. This one is hardly ever mentioned but it's pretty awesome too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg2d_s1wfcU

Morceli was amazing that day. I had the opportunity to train alongside him in Gainesville, Florida one week. So amazingly fluid and fast. Drugs can't help form. He was special.

with these epo guys, we're talking about 1 or so seconds per lap.

and then you have hyper responders.

that means you take a 350 miler to 346 or less.

cacho aouita morcelli, el g were on the program.

though i say elg would win in a clean race against all of his era.

informed speculation at its finest.

basically what guys like al salazar and girls like radcliffe were trying to do is to "legally" at least in their minds get the benfits of epo "naturally", with vitamins, herbs, and whatnot,

and what the brits in coe's era did to combat rampand blood doping in europe, has not put in the public domain. it should.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Need to throw a legendary name from the past too in the most important of races.

1976 - John Walker runs 37.8 for the last 300m to win in 3.39.18

Not quite as fast as Cacho in '92 over the last 300m but pretty comparable given the race was a second faster overall. This one is hardly ever mentioned but it's pretty awesome too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg2d_s1wfcU

this type of finish is emulated many times, where you close in running start 50 / lap pace, in a somewhat erratic way. this is your standard last lap 1500 champiionship speed till today.

check out cram and walker in 82 commonwealth games finish, where walker ran stupidly and still closed in 51, would have been 50.

Chesire finished 4th at the 1984 Olympic final. 4th again at the 1987 world athletics championships and 4th again at the 1992 Olympics

longjack wrote:

this type of finish is emulated many times, where you close in running start 50 / lap pace, in a somewhat erratic way. this is your standard last lap 1500 champiionship speed till today.

check out cram and walker in 82 commonwealth games finish, where walker ran stupidly and still closed in 51, would have been 50.

Yes of course - many many championship 1500m follow a pattern of 2.00+ at 800m, 55-56 for the 3rd lap through to 1200 and then a burn-up in the last 200m.

But running under 38.0 seconds is still not super common - especially in a sub 3min40 race run this way. For example in the '82 final John and Cram both run sub 38 - but don't forget this race was 2.08 at 800m which was far slower than that 1976 final (2.03). I do agree that Walker could have won this final because of course made a horrible guess that Boit would swing wide and then he didn't.

Hey if we want to talk pure acceleration (maybe that defines a kick?) that freaking destroys a field - maybe nothing is better than this from Ovett at the World Cup in '77. Was so good Walker just stepped off the track. Now this one is more impressive than it seems - to have this acceleration in the tank in a decently quick 1500 (2min54 at 1200) is pretty extraordinary. To drop an easy 12.7 from 1300-1400m and then just float up the home straight - well, that's what you can do when you are one of the top 5 most talented middle distance runners to have ever lived.