Could somebody explain the rationale behind 18- or 19-minute 5k runners wearing super shoes?

Whiskers wrote:

HobbyJogging wrote:

Before super shoes: 20-19 min runners looking at the <= 17min runners

After super shoes: the cheap 17-18 min runners looking at the 19-20 'midpackers'

What does this mean? Can you rephrase this? It might be a bad translation from another language.

Before "super shoes", the faster runners were wearing minimal, lightweight racing flats that the "midpackers" weren't comfortable wearing. After "super shoes" the "midpackers" are the ones more likely to have the money to $200+ on these shoes and the faster runners are jealous that they don't have that kind of money or are too cheap to spend it on such shoes for a 5k.

Personally, having tried the Skechers Speed Elite and Saucony Endorphin Pro, I haven't found them to be worth the price tag (or even wearable in the case of the Saucony).

old times ago wrote:

OP,, Why do you bother wearing racing flats? That seems like a waste of money.

Because my trainers are slower and heavier, they are the right tool for the job, and relatively cheap for a hobby that makes me very little money. Also, I have the piece of mind that I am not paying for mechanical doping.

Have We Done This Before wrote:

Here I am OP, on the wrong side of 40 and carrying a few extra pounds. I have a pair of Zoom Flys that I used to successfully (!) sneak under 20m in a few 5ks

What would you like to tell me about my:

a) income

b)shopping addiction

c)"pointless" goal setting, and poor achievement level

or fill in any other topics as you see fit. Trying to understand just how ashamed I should be.

I don't have anything to say to you, really. But you seem quite self conscious of how others might perceive you.

Um. Freedom of choice? The concept is very troubling to some.

hobby jogger extraordinaire wrote:

I would argue the cost difference is greater. I have never spent over $100 for a pair of road racing flats. They usually aren't that expensive and I get them on sale. So the cost difference would be 2 or even 3 times of the cost of my usual racing shoe and then the super shoes even have a shorter life with the quick compaction of the low density foams.

I would argue that no one cares how much you have or haven’t spent on road racing flats.

highhoppingworm wrote:

This is the stupidest thread ever. By this logic people shouldn't purchase any luxury good if a cheaper version will "get the job done" without material impact to their livelihood. Why drink nice wine with dinner when you can drink plastic bottle vodka? Why drive a fun car when you can drive a used minivan? Should we all just cease doing things that bring us pleasure?

Not sure about this logic. Running shoes are a tool for doing an activity that you enjoy. The pleasure is the activity, not the consumption of the tools. If you need a high end pair of shoes to enjoy a race, perhaps you don't actually enjoy the activity, but rather get pleasure from the gear for the activity. I am able to enjoy a race with a $75 pair of racing flats and get faster through my training. A pair of $250 racing shoes is not going to improve my enjoyment of that race (except for maybe a leg destroying marathon).

Perhaps a better comparison is the enjoyment factor of a dinky small town marathon (Trader Joes wine or a minivan) vs. a big city marathon (top shelf wine or a sports car).

hobby jogger extraordinaire wrote:

A pair of $250 racing shoes is not going to improve my enjoyment of that race (except for maybe a leg destroying marathon).

This is where we deviate. It is actually enjoyable to run in these shoes. I can literally feel how they change my stride and improve my efficiency. I can run faster with less perceived effort which is fun!

Who are you to judge what other runners spend their money on? It’s not your money. As people posted on an earlier thread regarding super shoes and other tech it’s the consumers that drive product development and will bring down the price. Any male who doesn’t run sub 13:30 in their prime is pretty much a hobby jogger.

Some of you need to search for Whistlin' Diesel on YouTube.

The guy takes the money he gets from YouTube videos, buys a nice diesel truck, and will outright destroy it over the course of several weeks. It upsets his loyal viewers, but he makes a good point. It's his money, and it's his truck.

hobby jogger extraordinaire wrote:Because my trainers are slower and heavier, they are the right tool for the job, and relatively cheap for a hobby that makes me very little money. Also, I have the piece of mind that I am not paying for mechanical doping.

Why aren't lightweight shoes also mechanical doping?

Once again, I run a little bit faster in Vaporflys than I do in an old school flat and I feel better afterwards. Why on earth wouldn't I race in the shoe I run faster in? What a stupid question.

kirkandorules wrote:

hobby jogger extraordinaire wrote:Because my trainers are slower and heavier, they are the right tool for the job, and relatively cheap for a hobby that makes me very little money. Also, I have the piece of mind that I am not paying for mechanical doping.

Why aren't lightweight shoes also mechanical doping?

Once again, I run a little bit faster in Vaporflys than I do in an old school flat and I feel better afterwards. Why on earth wouldn't I race in the shoe I run faster in? What a stupid question.

Because you want to feel like you earned rather than just bought some time?

Lightweight racing flats just take advantage of lighter weight and better grip. The super shoes basically give you are a new machine. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Imagine the upgrade from adding a small electric motor to bicycle rather than just slapping on some new wheels and tires.

Another example. Let's say you have a gallon of gas to power your car engine. The gas represents your energy and ability. You drive a Honda Civic. For your training drives, you have four season tires. For your drag races at the clandestine local strip, you throwing on the summer tires. Gonna give you some better grip and performance but still the same gallon of gas powering the car engine.

Let's say you take that same gallon of gas (your energy and ability) and put it in your Honda Civic, throw on the summer tires, but also introduce a small electric engine to power the rear wheels. So now you have improved grip and performance in the tires, but a little extra to push the car along and also be more efficient with gasoline usage. It's not the same.

Why are you wearing racing flats instead of heavy trainers to run a 16 - 17 minute 5K?

Tell Kipchoge or Des Linden that simply training harder will produce better results.

The super shoes are the new racing flats of your day, fun to run in even for slower runners, faster than traditional racing flats even for a 5k (worth 15 to 30 seconds for a slower runner over 5k).

Stupidest thread ever confirmed.

The sport takes the shape of those willing to pay for it. There was another thread where the poster was trying to cut his shoes spending to under $200 a year at 60 mpw. My worst moment as a runner was walking into one of our local running stores and seeing a tutu on the mannequin in the center of the store.

These stores used to sell track spikes now they sell tutus because those are the people that pay.

hobby jogger extraordinaire wrote:

Why aren't lightweight shoes also mechanical doping?

Because you want to feel like you earned rather than just bought some time?

Lightweight racing flats just take advantage of lighter weight and better gri.

So we agree that your lightweight racing flat also bought you some time.

Screams of I beat so it must be the shoes, I train hard they must not of trained hard. You are not sub 14k male or sub 15k female we are all doing it as a hobby for fun and how cares what we pay out money on

If you aren’t sure about this logic why don’t you take your first 3 sentences and insert different objects related to activities e.g. a car, a fork etc. you will get the idea pretty quickly.

Nonsense. I am 56 now and a 19 - 20min 5k runner (although I did sub 15 when I was younger. I can't run (let alone race) in traditional flats anymore, my legs would just suffer too much. My "pre-carbon" racing choice were some Lunartempos, and now I got a pair of Adios Pros and they are just great. 200 bucks - so what? As long as I have fun getting out of the door it is well spend money.

Actually one could argue that it doesn't require racing flats to run between 16 - 17 min, right?

Of course there is an aspect of hype and addiction (just look at Instagram) and some people train in VFs day in day out. However, the investment isn't worth to mention, a bike is at least 5 - 10x more.

I'm a sub-19 5k runner and pretty happy about it. Let's not start bashing other people's times. Some folks need to realise that, unless you're a professional runner with some sort of contractual obligation, your times mean next to nothing to anyone but yourself. In the grand scheme of things, your 14 minute 5k is as meaningless as someone else's 6 hour marathon.

Didn’t know everyone needed your approval to buy what they want... honestly they don’t care what u think