Not trolling, taking 5 seconds off any 5000m record would be a big deal. Maybe Hocker can do it (I didn't say he couldn't) but it would still be a crazy time.
Not trolling, taking 5 seconds off any 5000m record would be a big deal. Maybe Hocker can do it (I didn't say he couldn't) but it would still be a crazy time.
look what you're asking ... wrote:
A sub-3:51 miler &/or 1500m equivalent will be an athlete capable of (46.25 to 49.75) 400 metres at peak 1500m fitness. There are some elite 10000m athletes capable of sub-49 400m, but that is rare. Most sub-3:51 milers or 1500m equivalent athletes will not be great 10000m athletes.
This might be the worst comment on this entire thread. How would elite mile ability (and the 400m speed that goes with it) be prohibitive of 10000m ability? With the best US 10000m runners in recent history, the exact opposite has been true. Can you remind me of Galen Rupp’s indoor mile time?
Furthermore, the two in question in this thread (Hocker and Teare) have already shown their ability to excel in longer distances. Teare was 6th at the NCAA XC meet in 2019. In case you forgot that race is 10000m.
Also, Teare is 2 months removed from a 13:17 5000m in which he walked down Drew Hunter in the final 100. Hocker’s collegiate career has been underdeveloped because of COVID, but he was the footlocker XC champ in high school.
This idea that good 400m ability somehow stops you from being a good 10000m runner is wrong- in fact it’s the one thing that every 10000m gold medalist of the last 30 years has in common. Consider reaching out to Rojo to see if he can remove your original post.
my two pennies´wrote:
"'m convinced this has to be a troll at this point. Cole Hocker just broke the indoor U20 WORLD record by 5 seconds. In a mile. 13:20 is not an insane time when you're talking about 3:50 milers. Cooper Teare has already run 13:17, and Hocker ran 13:30 in a tactical race on the same time. I have zero doubt both these guys could crush 13:20. I wouldn't be surprised if they both hit the 13:13.5 Olympic A Standard this spring/summer."
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Cole Hocker didn´t break the U20 WR! You can´t break U20 records the year you turn 20!
(Jakob broke the U20 indoor 1500m WR in 2019 when he was 18).
BUT both Teare and Hocker ran sensational times in the mile; super shoes and fast (wooden?) indoor tracks or not.
And since they are very good in the 5000m also I agree they must be amongst the hot favourites for the CC title.
Jakob who is also an endurance based miler/ 5000m runner won the European U20 CC (6.25km) championship 4 years in row and also ran below 28 minutes in a 10km road run under difficult conditions in 2019.
Also, 12k hasn't been run at World XC since 2015.
Moron#5 wrote:
Both of these 3:50 milers can probably run 28:00 for 10000m which makes them contenders.
Hocker is not a 28:00 guy.
elvid32 wrote:
Someone with 3:50 mile fitness could place very highly in XC, and to prove his point, they have.
.
They also haven't. Wheating was in the 90s the summer before he ran 3:30.
Some milers have range and some don't. So I think the point of contention is that 3:50y in an of itself doesn't mean anything over 10km XC. Teare has already placed highly in NCAA XC, but with the current 15-3km focus and the relatively low mileage / non strength based program he's coming out of, I don't see him banging heads with Mantz, Grivalja, Iowa State guy whose name escapes me at the moment, of the world.
Yeah, Teare has probably improved since he was 6th, but so has everyone else. It's almost as if you take a bunch of guys who really want to be good, give him them a bunch of time to train moderately, race infrequently, and minimize tinkering by overzealous coaches they'll get a lot better. This spring / summer should be really cool.
free shipping with purchase wrote:
elvid32 wrote:
Someone with 3:50 mile fitness could place very highly in XC, and to prove his point, they have.
.
They also haven't. Wheating was in the 90s the summer before he ran 3:30.
Some milers have range and some don't. So I think the point of contention is that 3:50y in an of itself doesn't mean anything over 10km XC. Teare has already placed highly in NCAA XC, but with the current 15-3km focus and the relatively low mileage / non strength based program he's coming out of, I don't see him banging heads with Mantz, Grivalja, Iowa State guy whose name escapes me at the moment, of the world.
Yeah, Teare has probably improved since he was 6th, but so has everyone else. It's almost as if you take a bunch of guys who really want to be good, give him them a bunch of time to train moderately, race infrequently, and minimize tinkering by overzealous coaches they'll get a lot better. This spring / summer should be really cool.
Teere and Hocker have both run great 5000m. The list of guys who have run 13:18/13:32 and not done ok in XC is pretty small:) Obviously there are some very good guys out there right now so if they win or are just top 15 or so is a different story. Charlie Hunter hasn't shown that range yet but he also hasn't run a 3k/5k that I am aware off recently.
Seems like the bigger question though is do they have the rest of the team to hang with NAU and BYU. It does feel a bit bad how XC and indoor are going to water down both fields...
i would certainly rather run a 3:50 mile than have a tough race against mantz and grijalva
free shipping with purchase wrote:
Moron#5 wrote:
Both of these 3:50 milers can probably run 28:00 for 10000m which makes them contenders.
Hocker is not a 28:00 guy.
You’re right? He’s probably 27:XX
The Oregon milers have XC backgrounds. Centro and other great milers were on the XC team. It's not a marathon.
His 5k puts him right at 28 minutes so I don't know how somebody would question the equivalency.
I have a hard time grasping how many great 800 to 5000m runners the USA has. Men and women . It hasn't always been this way. I'm very thankful. These people are incredibly dedicated. Thanks LETSRUN for giving them the credit due.
Cooper Teare born: 18 AUG 1999
Cole Hocker born: 06 JUN 2001
Both also ran 7:46 indoors this year.
Cole is almost 2 years younger than Cooper. Cole has higher ceiling I think.
This post alone should have this website shut down. Wow.
DougKresse wrote:
The Oregon milers have XC backgrounds. Centro and other great milers were on the XC team. It's not a marathon.
And many of their other great milers didn't shine in cross country. Mile and XC are two different skill sets. Some have both, some do not.
In his 13:32, he was out-leaned by Centro and ran his last lap in the low 50’s....They BOTH would have ran away from BYU with 600 to go, if they had chosen that route.
Great milers would make great cross country runners if they trained for it. Legs, heart, lungs, it's all the same. Centro could have won or been top 3 at NCAA XC if he wanted to be, but he didn't, so he wasn't. Both of these 3:50 milers would be contenders for the win.
I heard about a guy named Rod Dixon.
runderun wrote:
Moron#5 wrote:
Oh really. If you are an endurance based 3:50 miler, which these guys are, they likely can both run around 13:20 or faster. They can place high in a 10000m cross country race.
13:20 is an insane time, would be a u-20 US record by 5 seconds.
You must not follow the sport, neither Teare nor Hocker are under 20, and Teare already ran 13:17 recently (outdoors where it counts). Hocker ran 7:46 recently.
The NCAA Cross is a difficult race to win, especially with how the weather will be, but both of them have top five or top three ability. Doesn't mean that they will place there, as there are about 20 guys that have that potential.
free shipping with purchase wrote:
Moron#5 wrote:
Both of these 3:50 milers can probably run 28:00 for 10000m which makes them contenders.
Hocker is not a 28:00 guy.
Hocker ran 3:50 and 1:48 this weekend. That is a double that takes some strength. That is the kind of double Galen Rupp might have done in his prime. While Hocker certainly cannot break 27 minutes like Galen once could, IF Hocker and Galen raced this spring at 10000m I am not sure who would win. Galen would likely have to run under 28 to shake Hocker and Galen does not like to lead.