Bad Wigins wrote:
Mo Farah doesn't count. It all boils down to Rupp vs Jager. And they're right about even steven. Edge to Jager over how good in his best event, but to Rupp for range.
Why does Farah not count? He is peak OP.
You could change the discussion to Farah vs BTC and you’d have to say that Farah has achieved more.
(BTW, I’m no Farah fan)
FREE SALAZAR NOW
Zero of his athletes have ever tested positive for ANYTHING! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Al Sal Fan wrote:
PS- I think they should stop testing. If people want to dope that’s their business. I’m only interested in the competition.
The motto of Salazar supporters.
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Why does Farah not count? He is peak OP.
Because Salazar didn't contribute anything to his success. Mo just used his training group (and his doctors) and then moved on.
Rupp was the only athlete that Salazar really made into an elite.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Why does Farah not count? He is peak OP.
Because Salazar didn't contribute anything to his success. Mo just used his training group (and his doctors) and then moved on.
Rupp was the only athlete that Salazar really made into an elite.
This is not the way that I see it. Mo went to NOP as an also ran and left with a sh1t-ton of global medals. Salazar spent more time with Rupp but Farah is his best result.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Why does Farah not count? He is peak OP.
Because Salazar didn't contribute anything to his success. Mo just used his training group (and his doctors) and then moved on.
Rupp was the only athlete that Salazar really made into an elite.
Flaming hot take there.
Wins nothing-> joins NOP-> wins everything.
Pretty sure al sal contributed something.
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
Because Salazar didn't contribute anything to his success. Mo just used his training group (and his doctors) and then moved on.
Rupp was the only athlete that Salazar really made into an elite.
This is not the way that I see it. Mo went to NOP as an also ran and left with a sh1t-ton of global medals. Salazar spent more time with Rupp but Farah is his best result.
Also, I would argue that Salazar’s top 3 is ranked as follows:
Mo Farah
Kara Goucher
Galen Rupp
Galen is an excellent American runner, the other two are world class.
Les wrote:
Can't really compare NOP to BTC as NOP was an international group. BTC is only Americans. NOP always had more baseline talent than BTC. NOP many more medals won although by just four athletes -- Farah, Rupp, Centro, Brazier. BTC only medalists are Jager, Infeld. That said, timewise Schumacher seems to have gotten more out of lesser-talented athletes although at the cost of a lot of injuries. NOP seems much better at injury prevention although that could very well have been the result of the gray zone doping they were doing.
This person doesn’t know what they are talking about. Of BTC medalists he/she left off:
-Courtney Frerichs Worlds silver in steeple
-Amy Cragg bronze in worlds marathon
-Ryan Hill silver indoor worlds 3,000m
-Shalane Flanagan bronze World Cross
Also Sifan for NOP. Why even post if u know so little about both groups in question
wazzu1452 wrote:
FREE SALAZAR NOW
Zero of his athletes have ever tested positive for ANYTHING! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Waldemar Cierpinski has never tested positive for ANYTHING! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Daniel Komen has never tested positive for ANYTHING! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Hicham El Guerrouj has never tested positive for Anything! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Lasse Viren has never tested positive for Anything! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Zero East German women have ever tested positive for Anything! NADA. ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
Lance Armstrong has never tested positive for ANYTHING! NADA . ZILCH. NEVER. NOT ONCE.
(Actually some debate this, unlike the above.)
The problem I have with Schumacher is that there is lack of achieving the best performances when it really matters. Yeah Solinsky broke 27 minutes. But it was at Payton Jordan in the spring time. Of course plenty of people on this board treasure the performance because he stuck it to Rupp. But on the wider world stage few people care. Its clear in hindsight Solinsky was overtraining to get those results and he paid for it by having his career ended in his prime.
Rocket Mann wrote:
I'm not sure Jager is too far off from Rupp. Jager and Rupp both have Olympic Silvers, but Rupp has another Olympic Bronze whereas Jager has a WC Bronze.
World Athletics also ranks Jager's 8 flat above Rupp's 26:44 for what that's worth. Jager is also only 4 seconds off Rupp's 5k PR.
I'll still give Rupp the edge because the 5k and 10k are probably more contested than the steeple and he has way more range than Jager does currently mile-marathon as opposed to Jager's mile-5k.
Both "likely doping" according to the leaked USADA report.
Ryan Foreman wrote:
The problem I have with Schumacher is that there is lack of achieving the best performances when it really matters. Yeah Solinsky broke 27 minutes. But it was at Payton Jordan in the spring time. Of course plenty of people on this board treasure the performance because he stuck it to Rupp. But on the wider world stage few people care. Its clear in hindsight Solinsky was overtraining to get those results and he paid for it by having his career ended in his prime.
Aside from the constant injury problems, I think this is a valid criticism of Schumacher. In 2015 when Jager fell while likely easily running under 8 minutes, he struggled home 6th in the World Championships. In 2017 he ran 8:01 and made it look easy. A few weeks later, he ran out of gas and finished 3rd in the World Championships. The high quantity/quality of Schumacher's training eventually leads to strings of injuries with his runners.
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Geoff Capes? wrote:
This is not the way that I see it. Mo went to NOP as an also ran and left with a sh1t-ton of global medals. Salazar spent more time with Rupp but Farah is his best result.
Also, I would argue that Salazar’s top 3 is ranked as follows:
Mo Farah
Kara Goucher
Galen Rupp
Galen is an excellent American runner, the other two are world class.
A world silver/oly bronze medalist isn't world class?
Dr Yuengling wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
Because Salazar didn't contribute anything to his success. Mo just used his training group (and his doctors) and then moved on.
Rupp was the only athlete that Salazar really made into an elite.
Flaming hot take there.
Wins nothing-> joins NOP-> wins everything.
Pretty sure al sal contributed something.
He contributed his training group, featuring Rupp, and doctors, as I said. Coaching had zip to do with it.
I'm sure whatever medical secrets NOP has aren't what they were busted for. Nothing is banned before it's invented, that's the whole point of forming a techno team. But the coach of that team isn't the big tech wizard.
Drew HUNTER wrote:
Geoff Capes? wrote:
Also, I would argue that Salazar’s top 3 is ranked as follows:
Mo Farah
Kara Goucher
Galen Rupp
Galen is an excellent American runner, the other two are world class.
A world silver/oly bronze medalist isn't world class?
It’s a fair cop, a big exaggeration. Although I stand by my top 3.
I want to knock Galen out of the top 3 NOP:
Farah
Hassan
Goucher